Well ****.

[dave]

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=CAD&amt=1&t=5y

i dont know if it on anyone elses minds... but i seriously hope that we can recover from the last 8 years.

we are not an invincible country. ALL superpower empires have fallen. some times i really think that we are ****ed and will never recover.

[Bobby Light]

too bad they dont have a graph like that over the past like 75 years...would be interesting to see.

[dave]

yeah, i was thinking that too. that would be sweet. im sure its out there some where.

[Bobby Light]

I am not sure about this, but you would think that during "war" time that graph would make a big ass dip

[MadmaX]

why?

[Bobby Light]

why would it make a big dip? or why would i want to see the past 75 years?

[MadmaX]

I know why you'd want to see the past 75 years. The other thing that pisses me off about most graphs you see in major publications is that they don't start at 0 or are out of scale in some way.

Why a big dip?

[Bobby Light]

just to see how events in history affected it.

I would assume a big dip when a historic event like this happens.

[dave]

I know why you'd want to see the past 75 years. The other thing that pisses me off about most graphs you see in major publications is that they don't start at 0 or are out of scale in some way.

Why a big dip?

I can see why an out of scale graph would be misleading. but a to scale graph that represents the data in its entirety, zoomed in to the point of interest increases the accuracy of the plotted data. i dont think that is misleading in any sense. if its 1 vs the other it could be made to start at zero. the part that is the most important is the proportionality between the 2 and that is best represented in this chart.

just to see how events in history affected it.

I would assume a big dip when a historic event like this happens.

he was interested in the other part. why a big dip

[David]

Euro

[coop]

global warming....or manbearpig


actually US is destined to fall of the face of the earth....

[flyfrito3800]

The dollar is at a low value, but that is because of a trade imbalance, not a weakening of America as a whole. Also there are some upsides to a weak dollar, like an increase in tourism.

[coop]

yes ppl come to america to see the sites LOL

[flyfrito3800]

yes ppl come to america to see the sites LOL

Places like Florida and California are popular spots for Europeans.

[coop]

yeah cant get that in cancun or costa rica

[MadmaX]

That's not the point, it means everything is on sale from their perspective.

[MadmaX]

I can see why an out of scale graph would be misleading. but a to scale graph that represents the data in its entirety, zoomed in to the point of interest increases the accuracy of the plotted data. i dont think that is misleading in any sense. if its 1 vs the other it could be made to start at zero. the part that is the most important is the proportionality between the 2 and that is best represented in this chart.



I'll give a better example. The Dow goes down 400 points. So the newspaper prints a 6" x 6" graph that starts at 12,000 and tops out at like 15k. So the 400 point dip looks huge. Their motivation is obviously to grab your attention and get you to read, and ultimately buy their paper. If they showed the graph starting at 0, but printed on the same scale, it probably wouldn't fit even if you used the whole page. Additionally it would be less shocking. Or they could print the whole graph on a smaller scale, to fit that 6"x6" spot, and then the dip would look insignificant. But that doesn't sell papers either. From my perspective they could just as well start the graph at 12,500 and end it at 13,000 and just make one long downward line. It'd be just as relevent.

[dave]

right, so what you are saying is that the american dollar losing 35% of its purchasing power is not a big deal, but the graph is biased to reflect that?
from everything i can read that you are posting it seems to say that the graph is an over exaggeration of the situation. i disagree with you. i think the American dollar losing 35% of its value vs the Canadian dollar is huge.
the graph is clearly not about manipulating the results. perhaps it is your brain. its extremely clear what the graph is representing. it's may only be misleading to the untrained eye. i look at graphs all day long. perhaps i just know what im looking at.

im just giving you my opinion so that it may help you in the future when looking at graphs because this one clearly has no manipulation.

[MadmaX]

Let me say I've seen worse offenders, but the one you posted representing a 35% loss could just as well be a illustrating a loss of more than 80%. In a way they have even less excuse because it wouldn't be nearly as huge an illustration to start at 0 as the example I brought up.
Stuff goes up, stuff goes down. There's positives and negatives to either movement. European manufacturers are dealing with their goods being too expensive to be competetive overseas due to their exchange rate going the opposite way.

[dave]

lol, they are not offenders at all. that is the BEST representation of data. it would be interesting to see your reaction of a logarithmic scale. lol.

[MadmaX]

look, I UNDERSTAND the information okay?.

[MadmaX]

OMG, DID YOU GUYS SEE WHAT THE DJIA DID TODAY!!!!!!

http://a413.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/72/l_2c5e6e2eae14c1f283d65d2c52947ba4.jpg




SELL SELL SELL!!!!!!!!

[dave]

The way i look at it is as if it was a map. when looking at a map from here to omaha you want just the information that is relevant. with the method that im most familiar with is zooming in on the desired path. Granted, from here to omaha is just a drop in the pond compared to traversing the earth, but why have all that empty data? we know its there, but it is not relevant.

just as we know how far 0 is from 1. why not put 2-100 on that graph too? because it contains no relevant data that is beneficial to the displayed data.

[dave]

OMG, DID YOU GUYS SEE WHAT THE DJIA DID TODAY!!!!!!






SELL SELL SELL!!!!!!!!

i think you are only reinforcing my point. im not sure though. im really not familiar with your logic.

[MadmaX]

I understand your point.

I'm sure you understand my point.

[JesterMX6]

:turbin:

[dave]

are you ****ing worried yet?!
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=USD&to=CAD&submit=Convert&

1.00 US = 1.00 Can

[MadmaX]

does the earth stop rotating once 1usd = 1can?

[David]

no but my dogs are talking in spanish to one another. SOmethign is up... But i have no idea what they are saying.. I really should have taken spanish instead of french in highschool

[dave]

Wow. you guys just think the economy keeps on going as long as the earth is turning huh?

i dont think its quite that simple.

i cant not imagine any reason why this would not worry you.

[MadmaX]

sweet, double negative.

[dave]

spelling error. sorry.

[MadmaX]

Wow. you guys just think the economy keeps on going as long as the earth is turning huh?

i dont think its quite that simple.



But by the same token, the economy doesn't automatically crash simply because our currency weakens either.

[David]

^^ my point. before my sarcastic bs about the talking dogs.

[DarkSlide]

This country has been falling apart for awhile now.

[coop]

i think it comes down to supply and demand....ill PM spencer see if he can provide some insight

[MadmaX]

That graph indicates the exchange rate was 1.25 CAN = 1 USD back in 2005. I'm judging by some peoples remarks, if the reverse was true and it took 1.25USD for every 1 CAN, it'd be time to start jumping out of windows. Did the Canadians panic about that exchange rate? I dunno, I only bring it up because in 2005 Canada had the BEST performing stock market on EARTH.

That graph doesn't go back to 2000, and I'm too lazy to hunt down the number. But I'm going to guess it wasn't any better for the poor Canadians that year either. Yet somehow, their equity markets where the SECOND best in the entire planet that year.

Let me repeat myself, it goes up and it goes down. There's positive and negative side-effects to every movement. But this does not indicate the end of the U.S. economy. Not by any stretch. You believe that, buy gold and stuff it under your mattress. Plenty of other pessimistic speculators are already doing just that.

[dave]

why dont you expand a little bit and compare it to other currencies, like the euro. Stop trying to play it off like it's canada that is changing. dont be stupid. dont be INTENTIONALLY stupid/ignorant.
I know youre not stupid. but youre acting it now. What, just to make a point?

[MadmaX]

are you going to be bummed if the US is around another 50 years?

[MadmaX]

btw, my international investments are up 41% over last year.

The exchange rate devaluation works like swimming downstream.

[dave]

are you going to be bummed if the US is around another 50 years?

No.

Do you honestly believe that me complaining about how the US is losing power somehow translates into me praising the loss of power?

I am not happy with what is going on. I am trying to make other people aware of what is going on. So it can be changed. It seems that people on here including yourself are trying to downplay the significance of this. For what? Because you dont typically agree with my point of view?

I am honestly and adamantly concerned about the health of this nation. I promise you these concern are genuine. I am scared shitless that this country wont last once bush gets out of power.
And its not because bush was a great leader that i believe this country may collapse after his departure, but it is my understanding that someone has to clean up the mess. and it is going to HURT.

We OWE for what this administration was spent. I have said this before, you know where i stand. I am afraid this country will not be able to repay what we owe. And money is power. I am legitimately afraid for the longevity of this country. You do not need to question my loyalty to this country. Trust me.

[MadmaX]

Illbedamned.

Well, if you need a little encouragement. We're not having trouble finding international buyers for our debt(yet), maybe it doesn't look so bad from the outside.
Any other take on that?

[Bobby Light]

why is dave going to be an injuneer, why isnt he a political sci major

[MadmaX]

this should be interesting to everyone.

[dave]

why is dave going to be an injuneer, why isnt he a political sci major

i love math and science. i honestly thought about law though.

[DarkSlide]

Let's just all be communists.

[dave]

this should be interesting to everyone.

i am not an economist so if anyone has a solid and comprehensive explanation of why this is happening i would love to hear it.

[Bobby Light]

was there ANY point in time that it was 1 CAN = <1 USD?

[dave]

November 1976

[dave]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/CAD_USD_Exchange_Rates.png

[86Shelby]

Hyperinflation. Need to pay off the debt the economy is built on somehow. Sometimes it's the only way out. A dollar of debt, is still a dollar of debt; even if the dollar is now only worth 50 cents.

The fed is really caught in a catch 22. If they make money too easy to get, infaltion will WAY out of hand and cause problems. If they don't make money easy enough to get the whole mortgage/subprime mess will wreak havoc on the economy.

Do you realize the stark similarities of the borrowing mess that brought down the market in 29 and the mortgage mess? Buying stock with borrowed money, that was borrowed to begin with. The fed is basically trying to do what JP Morgan, Durant, & Rockefeller and thier high rolling friends did in Nov & Dec 29; pump a ton of money into the investment economy to help prop it up until it recovers. The Fed needs to do it in a limited fashion to control inflation, but still give enough to make a positive difference.

I know I don't like the outlook at all.

Remember, in July 40% of ALL Wells Fargo's mortgages were in default. Scary thought, isn't it.

[MadmaX]

Remember, in July 40% of ALL Wells Fargo's mortgages were in default. Scary thought, isn't it.

can you substantiate that?

[Bobby Light]

November 1976

so it bounced back right?

[86Shelby]

can you substantiate that?

Well ****, my bad. Miscommunication between me and my friend at WF. It was 14%(not 40%) of thier mortgages were past thier due date. Jackass used the wrong term to make me think 'wow'. Sorry?:dunno:

[David]

14% are late, not in a foreclosure..



If that is suppose to be bad then what would be normal?

[86Shelby]

I was told the word default, as in over 30 days past due, which was the incorrect word to use. It was a simple miscommunication with 14 and 40 on the phone. 14% were past due and were assessed penalties but not yet to default status.

Coming from a small town Nebraska bank it's 'normal' to have 3-5% be simply late with thier payments any given month. 1-2% will typically end up in default(30+days late). A fraction of a percent will actually reach forclosure. Nationally I don't have those figures but will ask.

[David]

thats would be really coool

[David]

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2007/01/25/news/business/doc45b9282b993c3005827112.txt


I did some googling and found this article. It's nto because loaning practices to the consumer like you or me buying a home but the combination of building/processing/housing value adjustments in flordia.

[MadmaX]

I can go back and try and find it, but I thought I read 40% of sub-prime mortgages, in florida. No explanation how much that makes up of the whole though.
When I get some time I'll try and find some reliable data.

You know, if there is such a thing.

[MadmaX]

Read an AP article in the LJS today about how the less educated you are, the more likely you are to answer an open ended question about our nation's biggest problem with something about the economy. thought about this thread and chuckled a bit.

[4 cam torino]

global warming....or manbearpig


actually US is destined to fall of the face of the earth....

+1 for manbearpig.

[4 cam torino]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/CAD_USD_Exchange_Rates.png

Damn you, I just found it back to 1997 and got that put into a graph and get to this point and find someone finally found it way, way back.

[4 cam torino]

November 1976

so it bounced back right?

who said it rebounded to get better? If you look at the graph the Canadian dollar and US dollar were very similar from 1950 up until 1976 and probably long before.

[coop]

we're ****ed.....OMG AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL IS UNDER ATTACK.....thank you for the last 200+ years...it was fun

/thread

/america

[MadmaX]

djia hit a record tuesday.

[dave]

djia hit a record tuesday.

thats good?

[MadmaX]

if you do something with your money other than spend it, yeah.

[dave]

100% of my finances are loans right now. are you seriously suggesting that it would be beneficial for me to invest it into the stock market?

[David]

as a requirement in my econ. class we played the stock market for a month or two. My return was 23% the average was like 13%.... only 3 individuals in the class of 25 or so lost money. so if you APR is 9% even and your return is 5% monthly then i would say it would be beneficial.

[dave]

oh boy.....

i imagine your econ teacher would probably fail you if he/she read that. i seriously hope you have no intentions of ever becoming a financial adviser.

so with my 3k i have to last me til january, run me though your recommendation.

[David]

it sounds like you have financial issues. if you would like help managing your money dave i'd be mroe than happy to help you...

my first recommendation would be..
www.getajob.com (http://www.getajob.com)

I seriously hope you have no intentions of ever supporting anyone else.

[coop]

i put my money into a 0% checking account and i make so much money

[dave]

i dont have financial issues....
i guarantee i work more than you. all of your work related activities combined, i guarantee i work more than you.

it is not realistic for me to get a job.
so answer my question realisticly.

and yes, i do plan on supporting people. you cant be that stupid that you think i am going to be a full time student for the rest of my life. but based on your hope of my intentions it seems you must think that.
i plan on supporting my wife, my kids, my parents, and if necessary, my siblings, but i dont believe it will be.

as for the financial assistance there is nothing you can do for me. i have no income, how could you possibly assist? i have a well planned budget that i follow. i guess i just dont know how you could improve my financial situation in any way. but i suppose i am welcome to suggestions.

[David]

^^ where do i sign up?

[David]

i dont have financial issues....
i guarantee i work more than you. all of your work related activities combined, i guarantee i work more than you.

it is not realistic for me to get a job.
so answer my question realisticly.

and yes, i do plan on supporting people. you cant be that stupid that you think i am going to be a full time student for the rest of my life. but based on your hope of my intentions it seems you must think that.
i plan on supporting my wife, my kids, my parents, and if necessary, my siblings, but i dont believe it will be.

as for the financial assistance there is nothing you can do for me. i have no income, how could you possibly assist? i have a well planned budget that i follow. i guess i just dont know how you could improve my financial situation in any way. but i suppose i am welcome to suggestions.


I'm not gonna play the lets count who spends more time doing what but i do have a fulltime job, a parttime job and i'm a fulltime student. I dont' doubt your busy and i wouldn't even attempt to save any of your living allowance. I also know your smart enough to budget that money i was just being a **** like you.

and your right it woudlnt' make any sense for you to invest any of that money. In 3 months i'm sure there won't be much left even on a very conservative budget. Assuming anything was left over fees would eat up whatever you tried to invest.

I was referring to the idea that one who understands how to invest could borrow money (referring to your living on financed money statement) and could yield a healthy profit.

Example IF i borrowed $3,000 in cash from my credit card whcih charges a rate of 22% annually(cash advance) and if i were able to reproduce my class average of 15% monthly returns consistantly for 12 months i would come out ahead. **** without compounding it thats a return of like $5200 and my finance charges are equal to what like $700?:bored1:

I was merely talking in theory.

[dave]

i agree with the theory

[coop]

life isnt always what it seems to be...words cant express what you mean to me

[MadmaX]

trading on margin is a terrible idea.

[coop]

buy high sell low has been working well for me

[dave]

and now the mainstream media catches up.