Not a thread about octane booster

[4 cam torino]

Ok, so turboing a 4V motor in a Torino revisited. I'm really thinking more seriously about it after some conversations with a friend who wants to help out and would do all the piping for me. I cannot find a graph for a turbo 4V engine that doesn't look like ****. Seriously. I think there are some people around that know a little about tuning with turbos here so I'd kind of like some insight. Talking to the guy that would be doing the tubing, he thinks that a car like this one
http://www.dynosport.com/cobra8.htm
which has a graph that looks like total **** in my opinion, would benefit from more timing down low which would help it build boost. Any thoughts on a statement like this? Looking at some other things that car has going on like the most shaky looking air fuel graph I've ever seen it would seem as if that car's tune could use some work so it would not be surprising if the timing was an area that could REALLY use some work. If you can't even get the air fuel right, how are you going to get the timing right? You know?

Having said the above car's results aren't appealing to me, here's some more on what I'm looking at doing. In the end I'm looking for 600-650 to the tire on pump gas. From what I've seen that is doable on even just a stock 03-04 Cobra short block with absolutely no worries ever, I think everyone will agree. In the mean time I'd really just be looking at 8 psi or so on the stock short block I have, maybe if I could get a deal on a used termi rotating assembly something would happen quicker but I don't think it seems likely and I'm guessing that still wouldn't be cheap enough for a quick pick up of it. I want something that is going to spool quick and I think I'm really looking at methanol injection and no intercooler. I think I can manage to keep the meth tank filled. I'm thinking a turbo in the range of 66-70 mm would do what I need. Looking at the compressor map of like a GT40R I think I'd really be in the turbo's efficiency range now and I'd kind of be off to the right portion of the map when turned up with the final set up but still be fine. So I've kind of have my eye on finding a GT40R or like a PT68. I've got until spring to try to find a deal. Not being in a hurry should help here. I'm a little confused when looking at turbine A/R's. That seems like an inexact science from my little research. I borrowed Maximum Boost to see if it would provide me any insight. From some quick scanning through that book last night, I think it seems overrated. Maybe when I get into it a little more I'll change my mind.

I seem to have different goals than those I have found that turboed a 4V motor. I would love to find info on a set up similar to what I'm looking at but i don't think it's going to happen. So I'm just trying to find all the real info possible and ask lots of questions.

[Cobra Commander]

If this was a go, what would you do for an intake with your B heads? Or would you find some C heads?

[4 cam torino]

The final engine probably isn't going to have B heads and unless I find a deal on a Cobra intake the current engine is probably just going to use the Mark VIII intake. If I were to find a different rotating assembly to handle more power now for cheap I'd probably still be working with B heads for a while. I think there might be some deals to be had on some stuff though so I'll see what happens.

[Cobra Commander]

Understandable. I guess I asked because I've never known how well the Mark VIII intake flows up top, compared to the 96-98 Cobra variable intake.

[TurboB18C1DC2]

would benefit from more timing down low which would help it build boost. Any thoughts on a statement like this?

do a search on google about this and you will realize what you need to do with timing to help decrease lag. or you could even try to think about it in your head, then come up with your own theory/conclusion and then finally compare your theory to what some tuners say online. there are also other mechanical things you can do to help out lag not related to tuning.

[roo]

automatic + 5,000 rpm stall = no lag

[4 cam torino]

would benefit from more timing down low which would help it build boost. Any thoughts on a statement like this?

do a search on google about this and you will realize what you need to do with timing to help decrease lag. or you could even try to think about it in your head, then come up with your own theory/conclusion and then finally compare your theory to what some tuners say online. there are also other mechanical things you can do to help out lag not related to tuning.

I was hoping you would chime in here. But possibly provide a little more knowledge lol

[4 cam torino]

automatic + 5,000 rpm stall = no lag

There's a T-56 propped up in there and the only thing that's going to change about that is how it's propped up, i.e., with a cross member instead of a jack stand lol

[TurboB18C1DC2]

would benefit from more timing down low which would help it build boost. Any thoughts on a statement like this?

do a search on google about this and you will realize what you need to do with timing to help decrease lag. or you could even try to think about it in your head, then come up with your own theory/conclusion and then finally compare your theory to what some tuners say online. there are also other mechanical things you can do to help out lag not related to tuning.

I was hoping you would chime in here. But possibly provide a little more knowledge lol

there's alot of people on here with more knowledge than me. people that own shops, or have owned shops etc. but i do agree with your feelings on maximum boost. its outdated now but its alright. whats funny in that book bell talks about intercoolers with tubulators being superior to intercoolers withought them, which i do agree. on his bell engineering turbo kits for miatas his intercoolers dont have tubulators. i always found this funny.

[roo]

TPI FTMFW!!!

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1222/vemp060901zc4turboinstaoj1.jpg

http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0609_c4_l98_corvette_turbo_install/index.html

I think they used a 60-1 or something on this car. I was kind of amazed because the AR on the exhaust housing was the same size I used on my Eclipse. I figured it would need to be much larger for the V8 but apparently not. Of course I may have sized my exhaust housing to large to being with. I went with a .83 housing to start and that was getting me full spool in the lower 5,000 range. I recently backed it down to a .63 housing and now i'm seeing full spool by 4,500 rpm. Trial and error.

[4 cam torino]

See, one article I read yesterday said that choosing an A/R on the exhaust was really partially trial and error and the "feel" you wanted. I really didn't like that answer. The guy doing the piping was suggesting I go with something in the .83-1.06 range. I think I'll probably initially try to err to the side of being too small and see what happens. On the initial set up with the intent of not breaking the glass pistons it will probably perform flawlessly like that and then I'll see what happens when the engine is done and I turn it up. It could be a restriction then, or maybe it'll still be ok.

I was told the Boostang had a 60-1 on it and spooled up real quick with around 550 to the tire. That could honestly be a set up I'd be happy with but I think I could probably get a little more turbo to spool quickly especially with the additional flow of a 4V.

Do you have graphs from each exhaust housing on your car roo? I'd be interesting in seeing a side by side comparison of what an exhaust housing change alone did on a car, assuming that would be what the graphs would show, which from what i've read about your dyno trips they might not. But if they do I want to see it for sure.

[roo]

Yeah I was hoping to have a side by side dyno graph showing the the torque curve moving to the left with the smaller AR housing but I never got that far on the dyno last time. :(

I would definitely try erroring to the small side if you're looking for quick boost response. I think a .83 housing would be a good place to start. It *might* hurt top end a little but it'll make it more fun to drive :)

[4 cam torino]

Like I said, a smallish A/R with the engine as it sits would probably be perfect. That intake sucks. It's like TPI with more runners in that it takes an engine that could rev higher and makes it stop revving lol I'd like to have the set up matched as good as possible to the final combo though to avoid doing things twice. But a little adjustment later is probably inevitable.

[4 cam torino]

I'm finding guys doing crazy stuff running B heads....

[4 cam torino]

anyone ever seen this site?
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/

[Cobra Commander]

I'm finding guys doing crazy stuff running B heads....

Like what?

[4 cam torino]

It's not really that crazy I guess. Just doing searches on a site I found and seeing quite a few guys going 9's on completely untouched B heads. All the information I find on stuff is real fragmented. It's hard to find complete set ups with numbers

[Cobra Commander]

quite a few guys going 9's on completely untouched B heads.

Thats pretty cool. B headed 32v's don't get much attention. :joe:

[86Shelby]

I was going to send you to Frank's turbo calculator, but you found it yourself. That's a nice tool to play around with and see what should work well for your expected airflow/hp & boost. Too bad that most of the compressor maps on there end with the really hairy end for our turbo 2.2/2.5s.

Definitely err on the small side for the turbine housing since you seem to want more bottom end. .63 is likely going to be a choke on the top end, maybe .82 would be a good compromise. FWIW I would spool my T04E 50 trim/ .63 stage 3, to 20 psi by 3500 RPM with my lowly 2.2 in the Spirit; you have more than twice the engine. It very slowly ramped from 2000-2500, then the party really started around 3k.

[4 cam torino]

Someone was talking about a .63 A/R on a mod motor, he said he would get full boost at half throttle. LOL Definitley don't need anything that small on the exhaust side. The GT40 really seems to be a fairly common turbo on them and limited playing with the calculator kind of backs up the number I had calculated on my own and was playing with using the maps on Garrett's site yesterday. I'd still like to see some graphs of a set up using one of those on a mod motor but I'm starting to feel fairly confident that that is the way to go anyway.

[Kelvin]

talk to some *** in NAM about this

[TurboB18C1DC2]

talk to some *** in NAM about this

vietnam?

if so i dont think its that easy to get a hold of ross. :-(