The 03-04 Cobra just got nasty. REAL nasty....

[Cobra Commander]

Jacked from another forum: :eek::nervous::ohnoes:

Hellion will be releasing a new TT kit for the 03/04 cobra that gives you the option of using it with the blower or without the blower.

In their testing sessions, they had the stock Eaton on the car with stock pulley(8psi) and the turbos at 26psi. In total, the car saw 44 psi after the Eaton and made 1200hp 1000lbs on stock motor(with fuel upgrades)

They continued to up the boost till at around 65psi the heads lifted.

The kit will be standard 57mm turbos, or optional twin 76mm turbos.


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i306/Brook32v/sema_07_tu_DSC_93981.jpg

No tuning issues at all. The supercharger was constantly fed boost and the benefits are insane low-end power. THe turbos spool up so much quicker than without the blower. The top power numbers suffer slightly because of parastic loss but the average output is so much greater it is well worth it.

The concept has been around for many years in the diesel market and sport compact market. It has been done on some high profile V8 gasoline projects in the past.

Tuning was just fine. In the end, the engine sees boost in the intake manifold, it doesn't know where it came from. We were just compounding the boost from the turbos with the Eaton. The Eaton didn't run out of efficiency because the turbos kept constant pressure on the blades.

Be sure to check out the next issue of Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords for the Exclusive story on this combo, the dyno graphs, and some insight in to how it works.

[BOWERS]

Seems like the eaton would be killing the flow of the turbos.

[moparornocar]

I believe that this could work well or better if they had a controller to let excessive boost go through the boost bypass system after the efficientcy of the supercharger was reached. Matt and I talked about this in depth on our way back from Dynosport yesterday. Then I see this!!! We are thinking about something like this for Matt's Cobra?!!!

[Cobra Commander]

It will be interesting to see how well the 32v likes 40+PSI and 1,200+whp once the kit is actually released early next year and being used on the streets. 800-900whp is one thing, but now it is some serious power being thrown at a stock engine.

[Gentoo]

somewhat of a repost http://lincolnstreetscene.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=2992

:D

[Cobra Commander]

somewhat of a repost

Ya, I was busy posting mine when his went up. :)

[clint]

I believe that this could work well or better if they had a controller to let excessive boost go through the boost bypass system after the efficientcy of the supercharger was reached. Matt and I talked about this in depth on our way back from Dynosport yesterday. Then I see this!!! We are thinking about something like this for Matt's Cobra?!!!

The efficiency of the blower may not be an issue or would deffinetly be effected because of the turbo boost in front of the blower. Its similiar to what the diesel boys have been doing for years. Compound turbos. Allows you run 90-100 psi and maintain turbo efficiency.

[Gentoo]

i was just referring to this forum in particular but yea...at least theres some info. 1200hp on a stock bottom end is crazyness...

[Cobra Commander]

i was just referring to this forum in particular but yea...at least theres some info. 1200hp on a stock bottom end is crazyness...

I edited. Durka. :lost:

[Johnny]

:shock:

that is sicc

[sn95.0]

I was waiting for you to steal this tread.

[Gentoo]

el oh el

[Cobra Commander]

I was waiting for you to steal this tread.


Sorry man. I posted right after you. lol I was trying to dig up more info on the kit.

[spoonraker]

So you can just go buy a stock 03-04 cobra, install this kit, probably needs a tune, and then have over 1,000 HP?

[Cobra Commander]

I'm sure it's a easier said then done, unless you have a bottomless wallet.

But yes, 03-04 Cobras can handle 1,000whp on a stock engine. It looks to me like the motor is clapped out after 1,200whp when the heads start to lift. I guess it depends how much boost is thrown at it.

[sn95.0]

That combo would be sick with a 2.4 Kenne Bell instead of the stock eaton.

[moparornocar]

That combo would be sick with a 2.4 Kenne Bell instead of the stock eaton.

I think that is what Mattmoto is thinking about but with a Whipple. maybe shoot for around 900+ for street driving and a little more for the track? Don't know about this actual "kit"? But we have been kicking the idea around before we saw this.The coolness factor is very high with something like this.

[spoonraker]

How much does it cost?

[AeroSS_87]

Mr. IRS would have something to say about all this..

http://www.atomicforum.org/usa/operations/crossroads/baker01.jpg

[DSMMIKE]

I'm sure it's a easier said then done, unless you have a bottomless wallet.

But yes, 03-04 Cobras can handle 1,000whp on a stock engine. It looks to me like the motor is clapped out after 1,200whp when the heads start to lift. I guess it depends how much boost is thrown at it.

throw some better head studs on it and you should be good shouldnt you??

[spoonraker]

Well maybe I'm gonna have to buy a cobra next summer lol

[moparornocar]

Mr. IRS would have something to say about all this..

http://www.atomicforum.org/usa/operations/crossroads/baker01.jpg

There are some that with the solid bushings, Irs brace, front dif brace, and level 5 axles , have been able to run over 1000hp on the IRS.

BTW, that is a bad ass picture!

[AeroSS_87]

Sure.. with slicks and hard repeated launching? I'd still beg to differ. I would think before a 1200hp multi-thousand dollar kit were ordered, some suspension mods would be in place first. Maybe I just think practical though?

[Cobra Commander]

Mr. IRS would have something to say about all this..

http://www.atomicforum.org/usa/operations/crossroads/baker01.jpg

Hahaha. Ya, that would be well over the capabilities of IRS.

[Cobra Commander]

How much does it cost?

Pricing will be released early next year.

[moparornocar]

Sure.. with slicks and hard repeated launching? I'd still beg to differ. I would think before a 1200hp multi-thousand dollar kit were ordered, some suspension mods would be in place first. Maybe I just think practical though?


Before we were to do anything the rear is next thing on the list.

[LastPewterZ]

Craziness, it's definitely gonna cost hella cash!!!

[96speedZ28]

Like i said... BOOM!

[Cobra Commander]

If BOOM = blowing your load after having one beats your ass up and down the street. lol

[moparornocar]

Like i said... BOOM!

You evidently know little about 03/04 Cobra motors? There are a great number of them pushing over 900+ and they are reliable.

[Cobra Commander]

He knows. He just doesn't want to admit that his signature sucks.

[96speedZ28]

I know they are strong... I just like giving brook **** as he likes giving me ****. But im sure a setup like that pushing 1000+whp would get a little risky.

[clint]

Im really surprised Roo hasn't got in on this yet!? Its like his dream setup. :confused:

[Cobra Commander]

Is my sig working good for ya, Chris??

[Cobra Commander]

Im really surprised Roo hasn't got in on this yet!? Its like his dream setup. :confused:

....... but with four too many cylinders. lol

[96speedZ28]

Is my sig working good for ya, Chris??

:fight:

[roo]

Im really surprised Roo hasn't got in on this yet!? Its like his dream setup. :confused:

....... but with four too many cylinders. lol

I would start with at least 500ci and go from there....

[clint]

:shock:

[Cobra Commander]

Weak.

[Andy]

Sweetness

[roo]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.

[moparornocar]

I know they are strong... I just like giving brook **** as he likes giving me ****. But im sure a setup like that pushing 1000+whp would get a little risky.

Gotchalollol I will try harder to keep up with you guys.

[Cobra Commander]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.

Ya, that would really suck if you were making 1,200whp on one run, and only a weak ass 1,100whp on the next..... lol

[roo]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.

Ya, that would really suck if you were making 1,200whp on one run, and only a weak ass 1,100whp on the next..... lol

Or when you pull that supercharger off and find out you make an additional 200hp with it off

[Cobra Commander]

Hellion's old 88mm turbo kit is like $6,300 bucks. Here is an auto Cobra with that setup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isl-Ggtgrgo

:nervous:

[Cobra Commander]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.

Ya, that would really suck if you were making 1,200whp on one run, and only a weak ass 1,100whp on the next..... lol

Or when you pull that supercharger off and find out you make an additional 200hp with it off


But that powerband wouldn't be as much fun. :)

[roo]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.

Ya, that would really suck if you were making 1,200whp on one run, and only a weak ass 1,100whp on the next..... lol

Or when you pull that supercharger off and find out you make an additional 200hp with it off


But that powerband wouldn't be as much fun. :)

If the turbos were sized right it wouldn't matter.

[Cobra Commander]

Ya right. They are claiming some crazy low end torque numbers that a turbo setup couldn't match.

[Cobra Commander]

I guess that is why you have an automatic so you don't have to worry about it.

[roo]

Ya right. They are claiming some crazy low end torque numbers that a turbo setup couldn't match.

So they do have a dyno sheet?

[Cobra Commander]

The pussies won't post it yet. lol

[clint]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.


:confused:

[96speedZ28]

The pussies won't post it yet. lol

They are probly afraid to blow a motor.lol

[Cobra Commander]

I would be. It would be an expensive pop.

[roo]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.


:confused:

You have these nice turbos running at optimum efficiency and then you go push that relatively cool air in to a supercharger that is 40% efficient heating the **** out of it. You would probably get the same result slapping a t25 on one bank and a T88 on the other. Maybe better, you won't have the power loss turning that blower.

[Cobra Commander]

So are you after maximum numbers or a flat power curve here?

[roo]

So are you after maximum numbers or a flat power curve here?

You don't think you would have a nice curve using a turbo that spooled right around idle and a big turbo to pick up when that one fall off?

[Cobra Commander]

I doubt it would have comparable curves. Anything is possible I guess.

Then why would they go to something like this instead?

[roo]

I doubt it would have comparable curves. Anything is possible I guess.

I'm not saying it would be identical but it might be more ideal

Then why would they go to something like this instead?

Why do you think they offer an option without the supercharger? I'm guessing the 1600hp option is without.

[clint]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.


:confused:

You have these nice turbos running at optimum efficiency and then you go push that relatively cool air in to a supercharger that is 40% efficient heating the **** out of it. You would probably get the same result slapping a t25 on one bank and a T88 on the other. Maybe better, you won't have the power loss turning that blower.

I thought the blower was at stock boost. I don't understand where you get the 40% but it would be compound boosting at stock blower speed. Your correct on the parasitic loss though. It would be much higher due to the blower having to compress boosted air.

[roo]

It's definitely got the coolness factor but the efficiency of that setup has to suck.


:confused:

You have these nice turbos running at optimum efficiency and then you go push that relatively cool air in to a supercharger that is 40% efficient heating the **** out of it. You would probably get the same result slapping a t25 on one bank and a T88 on the other. Maybe better, you won't have the power loss turning that blower.

I thought the blower was at stock boost. I don't understand where you get the 40% but it would be compound boosting at stock blower speed. Your correct on the parasitic loss though. It would be much higher due to the blower having to compress boosted air.

I was using a 1950 6-71 blower map for my 40% claim. I figured it was relevant ;)

I'm curious to see how it performs. It seems like the other twincharged setups I saw went to great lengths to try to shutdown the blower or bypass the boost at high rpms. In the end none of them lived up to the hype. :(

[Yngvar]

I just want to see how well that motor holds up I have heard of stock 5.0 blocks splinting at over 500 horse

[LastPewterZ]

^^^ This isn't your average "Ford" motor. Aftermarket bottom end makes up for the Ford quality.

[LastPewterZ]

This just in 03/04's not indestructable:

I looked to see if there was a thread that summarized all of the engine failures we’ve seen to date, but didn’t come across one. If there is one, please let me know. If not, I thought it might be useful to list them all in one place, along with some basic info such as basic power adder mods, boost, power level, and a brief description of the failure and what is believed to have caused it. I’m not trying to “blame” certain pieces of equipment or anything like that…I just felt it would help us all to have this information in one place. Here are the ones I know of, including what info I have seen. I will make edits for corrections and/or to add more info.

mustang500hp (Stock): Galled #2 piston suspect due to low piston clearance. Failed at 2k mi.

03RedCobra (Stock): Blown head gasket, filled all the cylinders up with fluid, and it had to be replaced. It was BONE stock, even down to the filter. Failed at 1,700 mi.

RedSquad7 (Stock): Thrown rod at 1,286 mi!

Mr. Couper (Eaton 2.76” upper, ? psi, ?/? rwhp/tq): 3/21/06 SVTP. Piston damage #2. Bassani x/p and CB.

Xterminator (Stock except for UPR CAI): After a couple of 70 - 140 mph blasts. No.1 piston seized & ripped the wrist pin from the piston. ~16 kmi.

Yellow Cobra (Eaton 2.8” upper, 14 psi, 480/506 rwhp/tq): 3/2/06 SVTP. SLP X-pipe, SLP loud mouth muffler, SLP long tube headers. K&N filter. Diablo sport tune. NGK TRS spark plugs. AFCO heat exchanger-double pass.

smytty001 (Stock): Piston #7 damaged at 2.7 kmi. Stock except for CB.

John1975 (Eaton 2.93” upper, x psi, 433/_ rwhp/tq): Suspect blown #2 piston. Failed after 3 high-speed (135-155 mph) runs. A/F = 10.9-11.7:1 right up to redline. Octane = 94. K&N FIPK. Engine failed at 3.5k mi. Modded for 1.5k mi.

RedSquad7 (Eaton w/ 2.93” upper, 13-14 psi, 459/456 rwhp/tq on DJ): 2/4/05. 2nd Engine. Burned piston #2 after high-speed run (155-160 mph) during which several vacuum lines came off. A/F = 12.0-12.2:1 (at tailpipe). Octane = ?. Total timing = ?. 9” open K&N. Stock fuel sys. Bassani catted X and CB. Modded for ~2 kmi. Predator custom tune. Engine failed at ~10 kmi.

Z-06_Killa (Eaton 2.8” upper, 12.5(?) psi, 470/501 rwhp/tq DJ, 508 rwhp MD w/ N2O): 5/23/05. Piston #2, cyl and head damage. Lead came off spark plug, causing damage to piston...piston fatigued in that location/possible clogged injector. Detonation was heard by passenger in other car @ 120+mph before it let go. A/F = 12:1 blower, 11:1 N2O. NGK BR7EF plugs gapped at 0.032”. Octane = 93. Total timing = 23 deg blower, 20 deg N2O. Prochamber, Magnapack CB. CAI. Failure at ~22k mi. Modded at ~15k mi.

Copperhead - SVTP (Eaton 2.8” upper, _ psi, 430/400 rwhp/tq now): Low compression on cylinder #7 & 8. A/F = 10-11.5:1. Octane = _. _ Plugs. CAI. Offroad X-pipe and CB. _ chip. Engine failed at 43k mi. Modded for ~6k mi.

AnonymousT1 (Eaton 2.8” upper, 14 psi, 478/485 rwhp/tq): Minor scoring to #3 piston skirt, no other signs of damage mechanical damage. Accelerated hard with less than 1/8 tank of gas and blew fuel pressure sensor - car developed knock immediately after. A/F = 11.8:1 at peak power. NGK TR6 plugs gapped at 0.035”. Octane = 93. Magnaflow catted X & Steeda CB. SFPHQ CAI, Accufab TB. Failure at 12k mi. Modded at 7k mi.

ptrfree (Eaton, 2.8”, 13-14 psi, 444/435 rwhp/tq): 7/10/05. All exhaust valves on left head burned. Pistons OK. A/F = 11.5:1. Octane = 93. Timing = ?. TR6 0.032”. K&N 12” CAI. Catted H, Magnaflow CB. Engine failed at 37 kmi. Modded since 2 kmi.

calithekid (Eaton, 2.76”, _ psi, 435/453 rwhp/tq): 5/27/05. Knocking sound noticed during street race. One bad piston occurred at ~140 mph and missed shift -> over reved engine. Custom dyno tune, Magnaflow CB, JLT CAI, 5000 mi at time of failure. Motor replaced under warranty.

Grey03Cobra (Eaton, _ psi, 483/503 rwhp/tq): Piston (heat) damage to #7 & 8 occurred after top end high speed run (160 mph). Bassani X, CB & Mid-Length Headers. UPR CAI. Diablo chip. Engine failed at ~18k mi.

deadcobra (Eaton 2.8" upper, 12 psi, 450 rwhp): Failed at 4,800 mi, mods for 3,000 mi. Damage 7 piston burned other 2 pistons damaged, 2 broken rods, damaged crank and slight block damage. Suspect due to tune being too lean.

NeedForSpeed03Cobra (Eaton 4# lower, 2.8”(?) upper, _ psi, _/_ rwhp/tq): Heat damage to 3 pistons (#6, 7, & . Suspect due to a vacuum leak causing a lean condition.

Kino (Eaton w/ 3.1” upper 6# lower, 17 psi, 473/_ rwhp/tq): Heat damage to pistons and scuffs on skirts on 3 of them. Damaged pistons appear to be undersized. Blown head gasket. A/F = 12.1:1. Denso IT-22 plugs gapped at 0.030”. Octane = 93. Stock induction system. Stock fuel system. QMP 3” exhaust w/ CATs. Diablo chip. Engine failed at 27.5k mi. Modded for 21k mi.

BIGONTS (Eaton w/ 2.93” upper, 4# lower.): 11/24/05 SVTP. One of the vacuum lines from the back of the blower came off and when I got into boost the computer didn't read it and give the car more fuel. Created a lean conditon and burned a piston, etc. TR6's. SCT Xcalibrator. JLT CAI. LFP Heat Exchanger. Magnaflow catted X-pipe, Borla Stinger.

tommygun (Eaton 2.8” upper, 14 psi, 456/458 rwhp/tq): Piston #7 broke from top down to the ring land resulting in no compression. Failed when racing at > 150 mph. Detonation noted at time of failure. Octane = 91. A/F = 12.2:1 at peak power. NGK TR6 plugs. 11,235 mi when failed (700 mi after tick fix). 5.6k mi modded. Also had exhaust and CAI.







What amazes me is how some of these motors were completely stock with under 5,000 miles!!!

[moparornocar]

Did you also notice they were mostly caused by lean conditions. They are very prone to tuning issues. But considering there were 20,000 of them built the numbers of failures are low.The early ones had issues that many just ignored until failure. Most that developed the "tick" should have had their recall work done and would have prevented most of it. Also there was a poll on the mustang forum showing those that were on the "replacement" engines had really no issues.

[LastPewterZ]

My point was there were a couple that were completely stock??? You shouldn't need a tune right off of the showroom floor. I know these motors are extremely durable, I was just surprised to find this info.... and I figured it would stir Brook up a bit:nervous:

[Cobra Commander]

Ya, the early ones had issues, but most all has been recalled by now.

A lot of people have also admitted that they had done 160+mph pulls back to back (staying in boost for a long time), which is really hard on them especially on the stock "Heaton".