Boosted 32V's

[4 cam torino]

This will probably be all Brook, he probably has **** like this book marked. I want to see a dyno graph for a 500 RWHP 32V turbo car and a 500 RWHP 32V blown car along with the amount of boost it took for both and maybe the size of the turbo, and if possible maybe a couple of different turbo cars with different sized turbos. I'm just kind of dreaming and wondering.

[4 cam torino]

:lol: at the guys sitting on the back of the car trying to help it get traction on the dyno
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cdcba139-b74d-435f-82a2-9826015f542d.htm

Hell, maybe I should even be looking at 600 or 700 HP. Whatever someone can come up with that directly compares a turbo and SC'd 32V running on pump gas that also gives how big of a turbo they are running. Must be a single turbo.

[roo]

I realize you said single only but you could probably tuck twin evo III 16g's up next to the block by below the manifolds. They're small, cheap, and internally gated. Plus they would probably give you one hell of a power band.

Just something I keep trying to get brook to do to the mark VIII :)

[Lepa]

lol at comment on the video


It made 851 hp and 729 tq at 25.7 psi......three runs later it blew the head gasket

[4 cam torino]

I have way more room in the location you are talking than the Mark VIII does too. That would really sound like a good option if the power band was there, I don't have any real opposition to twins if I could get a good power band with limited cost doing it. I just didn't see the cost with twins being at all reasonable.

[Cobra Commander]

If Matt "NeverEnuff" wasn't banned, he could fill you in on a lot of that info. He has dug into that quite a bit while looking for options for his 32v.

[4 cam torino]

lol at comment on the video


It made 851 hp and 729 tq at 25.7 psi......three runs later it blew the head gasket

I didn't have the sound on since I'm at work, I'll have to watch it again later.

[4 cam torino]

If Matt "NeverEnuff" wasn't banned, he could fill you in on a lot of that info. He has dug into that quite a bit while looking for options for his 32v.

Lame, unban him!

[Cobra Commander]

SVTP's search engine is being gay right now. There has been a bunch of turbo Cobras posted on there lately. It sucks trying to manually search through them.

[Cobra Commander]

This has nothing to do with what you asked, but Mattmoto started a pretty sweet thread about stock IRS 60' times. IRS pwns...

http://69.13.120.175/forums/showthread.php?t=413539

[Cobra Commander]

I'm still trying to dig up dyno sheets. :(

Here is a Whipple 32v, exhaust, tune, CAI, injectors.
http://69.13.120.175/forums/showthread.php?t=393753

Sweet torque curve.

[Cobra Commander]

****. Where are all the turbo 32v dyno sheets????!

[4 cam torino]

Did mattmoto seriously ask about octane boost on SVTP? Come on dude, little bottles of octane boost are garbage! The only way to boost the octane of pump gas is with a calculated mixture of higher octane gas based on what octane you are trying to get as a result.

[roo]

I have way more room in the location you are talking than the Mark VIII does too. That would really sound like a good option if the power band was there, I don't have any real opposition to twins if I could get a good power band with limited cost doing it. I just didn't see the cost with twins being at all reasonable.

Yeah cost starts to suck when you get in to twins but the evo III 16G's make it pretty economical when you look at what you are getting. Plus longevity with a water cooled center section is a plus although this could also be consider a pain with more lines to route.

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16296&cat=426&page=1

The power band is a guess on my part based off my own engine being a 2.4L and the Cobra motor pretty much being double that. I've heard of people seeing full boost by 3k with 16G's on the stroker 4G63's. That obviously varies from car to car but having boost come on anywhere around that would be killer, especially when you have a 7k redline :)

[Cobra Commander]

Hahahahaa.


Holy ****! :nervous: Do THIS, Bard:
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q293/Sneeks2nv/Luispics141.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/YoungGunGT/jeff010.jpg

[4 cam torino]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320164658019

That is really kind of what led to these thoughts I'm having, someone on Motown built it originally and now it's for sale again.

Car Domain for it:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/555707/1

****, if i had honestly just looked at the dyno graph there first I would have figured something out, I just glanced at the thumbnail and saw that the blue lines looked like garbage and didn't actually open it to see there were red lines and what it all represented

[roo]

Hahahahaa.


Holy ****! :nervous: Do THIS, Bard:
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q293/Sneeks2nv/Luispics141.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/YoungGunGT/jeff010.jpg

:eek2smiley:

[Cobra Commander]

Hahahahaa.


Holy ****! :nervous: Do THIS, Bard:

:eek2smiley:

If only the Mark VIII engine could make 900whp on a stock motor like those were. :(

On that note, I think the Torino would be awesome with a solid 400whp on a budget turbo setup.

[4 cam torino]

There is a ton of room on the Torino between the grill and core support if I kill the hood latch. I could have one helluva party up there. If I got a Talladega front end somewhere, the would double the room I had in that area. That won't happen.

[Cobra Commander]

I'm sure you could. I bet those B heads would treat you good too with boost. ****, look at Thomas' dyno sheet......

[Cobra Commander]

Just hop on eBay and find yourself a 99/01 Cobra intake, research what turbos would work the best and spool quick, then get to work. woot

I doubt it would take all that much to hit the 400 mark. Too bad you would have to blow money on rods once you get to that point. ;(

[Cobra Commander]

Ah ****. You need C heads for that intake. ****! Nevermind.

[moparornocar]

Did mattmoto seriously ask about octane boost on SVTP? Come on dude, little bottles of octane boost are garbage! The only way to boost the octane of pump gas is with a calculated mixture of higher octane gas based on what octane you are trying to get as a result.

Yes he did, Because he is running his 550rwhp@15lbs pump gas tune and would like to run his 625-650rwhp race gas tune @20lbs, But you cannot buy race gas year round out here. If you search a little more you will find there are a number of places that claim to use different octane boosters with "success" . He wanted to see if it was a viable option?

[Bobby Light]

get a few gallons of tolene

[Cobra Commander]

I think you need to find yourself a 96-98 intake on eBay, even if you don't throw boost at it.

[Cobra Commander]

Yum yum.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/96-98-4-6-Cobra-Intake-Upper-Lower-IMRC-Tbody-Cables_W0QQitemZ280158155050QQihZ018QQcategoryZ364 74QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[roo]

Yes he did, Because he is running his 550rwhp@15lbs pump gas tune and would like to run his 625-650rwhp race gas tune @20lbs, But you cannot buy race gas year round out here. If you search a little more you will find there are a number of places that claim to use different octane boosters with "success" . He wanted to see if it was a viable option?

why would you **** around with octane boosters if you were messing with that kind of power? That's just asking for trouble.

I guess I would rather leave it where I know it's safe than start mixing **** together and hoping its going to do the job. There is quite a bit of money on the line if the mixture isn't right.

[moparornocar]

Yes he did, Because he is running his 550rwhp@15lbs pump gas tune and would like to run his 625-650rwhp race gas tune @20lbs, But you cannot buy race gas year round out here. If you search a little more you will find there are a number of places that claim to use different octane boosters with "success" . He wanted to see if it was a viable option?

why would you **** around with octane boosters if you were messing with that kind of power? That's just asking for trouble.

I guess I would rather leave it where I know it's safe than start mixing **** together and hoping its going to do the job. There is quite a bit of money on the line if the mixture isn't right.


I think his post was for information gathering? was even told to use octane boosters from a reputable speed shop (one that sells KB superchargers). Nothing wrong with asking those who have done it and learn from their results(mistakes).

[moparornocar]

HPP motorsports has a 900HP twin tubro Cobra that they used ONLY Torco octane boosters with pump gas ! There was an article in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords (recent issue) about them doing that and how. Here is the car.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/ef20691a-c6ca-4373-9030-98770170b36b.htm

[David]

sweet screen....

[4 cam torino]

Yum yum.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/96-98-4-6-Cobra-Intake-Upper-Lower-IMRC-Tbody-Cables_W0QQitemZ280158155050QQihZ018QQcategoryZ364 74QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Naw, waste of money. Whatever I run I would like to use a Terminator intercooler set up, whether it be with a KB or just a hat for the upper part of it for the turbo(s) to blow through. So I'll eventually build a Teksid block motor with C heads and the Cobra lower intake/intercooler and either a blower or fabricated upper intake. Also why I'm just going to buy the cheapest possible 6 bolt flywheel I can find, eventually I'll have an 8 bolt crank so why spend the money on a nice flywheel now?

[Cobra Commander]

Too much work. lol

[4 cam torino]

Do you realize how many little bottles of octane booster you have to pout in to make one actual octane difference? When the advertise that the bottle raises points of octane, they aren't talking whole numbers, they are talking about numbers after the decimal point.

[4 cam torino]

Too much work. lol

Gonna need new rods anyway.

[Cobra Commander]

Too much work. lol

Gonna need new rods anyway.

So your shooting for 400 wheel and above? woot

[4 cam torino]

I will be, this is not eminent, just random thinking so I thought I would start a thread for something to talk about, even though i ended up being out of the office half the day. Why would I stop at 400? I could spend under $1000 on the Lighting including tuning and have more than that. Why build a set up that makes less power than what I already can make?

[mattmoto441]

well 1 little bottle of torco to 5 gal 93 oct can raise it 7-8 numbers

[4 cam torino]

Not even possible unless it can somehow chemically react with the gas prior to cumbustion and I'm not even sure that would do it. Take a Chemistry class, it's a simple mixture problem.

Here's how a mixture works. I'll define some variables first
Amount of gas = A1
Octane of gas = O1
Amount of octane boosting substance = A2
Octane of octane boosting substance = O2
Resulting octane = OR

A1*O1 + A2*O2 = (A1+A2)*OR

So if a bottle of this stuff is a gallon and the octane of this stuff is 135, then yeah, the stuff would make 93 octane gas 100 octane.

I looked it up, a bottle is 10 ounces. There are 128 ounces in a gallon, which means that in order for that little bottle to get 5 gallons of 93 up to 100 octane, are you ready for this? The stuff in that bottle needs an octane of 548.7...Ummmm...riiiiiiight.

The only way to effectively raise the octane of gas is by using a gallon or two of something like the suggested Tolulene or Xylene that has a high octane or just by using a couple gallons of race gas.

Looks like it comes in 32 ounce bottles too. Then it ONLY needs to be 240 octane to get 93 to 100.

[roo]

well 1 little bottle of torco to 5 gal 93 oct can raise it 7-8 numbers


Keep believing that.

[moparornocar]

Lets see Torco has maybe one or two Chemist that work for them? It is published in their advertising. Maybe you know something they don't and you should work for them?
Here is where THEY make the claims.


http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_493420_-1

[4 cam torino]

If you want to make pump gas into “racing gas” for engines with 11:1 or more compression, high-boost superchargers, big doses of nitrous or any engine run on a race track at sustained high-speed/high-load; forget it. No canned octane booster in any quantity will fail to stop detonation under those conditions.

That is from an article that tested a bunch of octane boosters mixed properly with gas and then run through the actual test done to determine octane and spoken about boosters containing MMT which is the active ingredient in both NOS and Torco octane booster.

Research also turns up that Tolulene isn't a good thing to use because using too much disturbs other properties of the fuel leading to undesirable results, remember, octane isn't the only thing to watch for in the world of fuels, especially when you get into race fuels.

Be careful what you dump in your gas.

Do you really drive the car year round in order for it to matter that you can't buy race gas all year? Is it that hard to swap a pulley and the tune if you want to go for a drive when race gas isn't available?

[moparornocar]

As it was stated to begin with, This whole deal was a question and answer session. Some people follow everything others say as gospil and others ask for different opinions to determine the best route of action to take. But I am still wondering how HPP Racing is making 900+ with Torco additives and have driven the car over 6,000 miles without a hitch? That is where the questions and answers come from? May of 2007 MM/FF page 86-92, If you could look at that and fill me in that would be great.

[C.J.]

:lol: at the guys sitting on the back of the car trying to help it get traction on the dyno
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cdcba139-b74d-435f-82a2-9826015f542d.htm





It made 851 hp and 729 tq at 25.7 psi......three runs later it blew the head gasket

just thought that was kind of funny

[4 cam torino]

Do you consider 6000 miles a lot? I don't. I drove the Torino almost that far in the two months that it ran last year. I don't drive the Lightning all the time and in 3.5 years it has 30,000 miles on it and even that doesn't seem like a lot.

If you can scan that article I wouldn't mind seeing it, I really don't care enough to order a back issue.

If you really do some research on what is in the Torco product you can find some great info on what's going on, you will find that it is nearly identical to the "NOS race formulation" octane booster so while you will not actually be looking at tests using Torco you can easily see from the results that they are very, very similar products. Maybe the MMT products have the ability to provide functional octane increases but it also appears that they have damaging side effects that go with them. MMT stands for methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl, might help with doing some research although I found good info without actually using that as a search term.

[STOK5OH]

I can't believe this is being debated.

[82355]

I can't believe this is being debated.

It made me laugh.

Martin

[STOK5OH]

It was chuckle worthy,i can't deny.

[moparornocar]

You know, I also found it funny but in a different way?

[roo]

Like sexually?

[moparornocar]

Like sexually?

You are comming to KRP aren't you?

[roo]

Yes I am. I'll be there on the 20th if you want to teach me about octane boosters.

[moparornocar]

Oh , I will be there and we will talk!

[roo]

:nervous:

[4 cam torino]

This thread failed me.

[mattmoto441]

here is the cobra twin turbo running Oct boost

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/mattmoto441/800hp.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/mattmoto441/800hp2.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/mattmoto441/800hp3.jpg

[roo]

You should try it. Engines are cheap.

[4 cam torino]

I was actually able to read that. I will go blind 5 years sooner than I otherwise would have but read it nonetheless. It doesn't really say that he drives it every day on his 19 PSI setting, and it's obvious by the final statement that he really doesn't care if he blows it up. I'm assuming you would care if you blew your car up.

[moparornocar]

I was actually able to read that. I will go blind 5 years sooner than I otherwise would have but read it nonetheless. It doesn't really say that he drives it every day on his 19 PSI setting, and it's obvious by the final statement that he really doesn't care if he blows it up. I'm assuming you would care if you blew your car up.

As stated before , It was question and answer session looking for answers, When a national magazine publishes something like this, It raises questions, You have brought your facts, ideas , and equations to the table. In that it makes it easier to form an educated opinion or decision. Unlike others that clearly do not know what they are talking about and only throw out one liners or just follow a group because they think it makes them cooler.

[clint]

Torco works!:ohnoes:

[roo]

Pouring water in the gas works as well. It resists detonation and combustion.

[4 cam torino]

With held research results:
http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/index.htm

There are obvious reasons that it was with held. It's hard to argue using a link that doesn't really back you up but you can quote things from the site that while not supporting your real argument, support your side in some way.

Now, will someone please tell me how this works? How do I mix fractional amounts of fluid with gallons of another fluid and actually see a substantial difference in the properties of the fluid I had multiple gallons of? Obviously it does not work as a Chemistry mixture problem. Older octane booster would lead you to believe that it does work in that manner because they don't work. But octane boosters with MMT do raise the octane, so obviously that's not how it works. So how does it work?

I would still stand by the argument that using these products is not a good way to go about things, as does that link. But my real question is, how does it work? I tried researching that to no avail.

[moparornocar]

Very informative. It does say that some octane boosters do effecitvely raise octane to acceptible levels for certain types of engines, It would not be recommended in high boost applications, That and the cost + the fuel you start with, would be about the same as just blending high quality race fuel. So on one hand, Yes a few do work (with side effects) But for assurance and peace of mind, use the alternative.Yes, some even Kenne Bell suggest the use of certain octane boosters,as well as the Cobra in the article. Not sure that is the best way to go.

[roo]

I've never really questioned if it worked or not. I'm sure a lot of them do something to the octane rating (although it might be very minimal). In my own experience I've used toluene before with great results.

I just think it's silly to take a car that was tuned for race gas and substitute it with regular gas + octane boosters. There is more to look at than just the octane. Race gas typically burns slower than regular gas so it requires more timing advance to make the same power. Any race map would surely compensate for this and advance the timing. What happens to the burn rate of regular fuel when you add octane boosters to it? Slow down, speed up, stay the same, just throw it in and hope for the best??? If it speeds up or stays the same you're likely going to run in to problems running a race map that is optimized for a slower burning fuel.

[4 cam torino]

The tolulene thing also throws me, because you used lots of it, right? By lots I mean like a gallon per 5 gallons or something of that nature. It really seemed to act in the manner I said with the Chemistry mixture formula. So why does Tolulene work like that, while MMT somehow does it with 1/4 gallon per 5 gallons. It's annoying because I can go out and find the actual octane for Tolulene, but not for MMT.

[4 cam torino]

I asked the how does it possibly work question on the Detroit board. No one knew there either :(

[roo]

The tolulene thing also throws me, because you used lots of it, right? By lots I mean like a gallon per 5 gallons or something of that nature. It really seemed to act in the manner I said with the Chemistry mixture formula. So why does Tolulene work like that, while MMT somehow does it with 1/4 gallon per 5 gallons. It's annoying because I can go out and find the actual octane for Tolulene, but not for MMT.

Yeah, I forget the ratio but I was mixing toluene by the gallon (4:1 maybe).

I wasn't shooting for a particular octane number though, I was just trying to add enough to keep the ecu happy and not pull timing on a hot summer day.

[4 cam torino]

MMT is magic.

[roo]

Like Harry Potter magic? :willy:

[4 cam torino]

I don't know anything about Harry Potter so I can't compare, but I think it is a far cooler magic than that. It reduces NOx emissions, extends the life of cats and O2 sensors, prevents valve seat wear in vehicles designed to run on leaded gas, and boosts octane. All without changing vapor pressure of the fuel, although they don't say how other properties might be effected. I dunno, that's what I read, it does it all, and it apparently does it with no ill effects according to the manufacturer of the substance. I'm going to go put it in all my cars and my mower now. I think if I mix MMT in water I might just be able to run my vehicles on water.

[clint]

Pouring water in the gas works as well. It resists detonation and combustion.

Im sure youve tried it! :rolleye:

[roo]

Pouring water in the gas works as well. It resists detonation and combustion.

Im sure youve tried it! :rolleye:

water injection ftw.

Don't roll your eyes at me boy

[clint]

Im not a chemist so I don't know how it works and don't care but when I feel a seat of the pants difference or no timing pulled thats all I need!

[clint]

Pouring water in the gas works as well. It resists detonation and combustion.

Im sure youve tried it! :rolleye:

water injection ftw.

Don't roll your eyes at me boy

SCREW you! I do what I want! *****! :pissed:

[roo]

Your butt dyno is obviously broken

[clint]

Your butt dyno is obviously broken


My butt dyno is way better than yours! Plus we've both used it with good results! Remember when we both came to Lincoln and got some from like Walmart or something.

[roo]

No? I've only used toluene in my car once and that was the time I raced brook's sonic blue mustang :confused:

I already stated above that it made a difference. The fact of the matter is It might of raised the octane level from 91 to 91.5 for all we know and that might of been all it needed to keep the ecu happy. If I was tuned for 100 octane fuel I sure as hell wouldn't be using octane boosters to try and *hope* I achieved that.

[Cobra Commander]

No? I've only used toluene in my car once and that was the time I raced brook's sonic blue mustang :confused:

cheater. :(

[roo]

:nx: to win

[Cobra Commander]

You probably did. I got a good launch on that run too. Then again, that car was easy to launch every time, kinda like the Mullet.

[clint]

No? I've only used toluene in my car once and that was the time I raced brook's sonic blue mustang :confused:

I already stated above that it made a difference. The fact of the matter is It might of raised the octane level from 91 to 91.5 for all we know and that might of been all it needed to keep the ecu happy. If I was tuned for 100 octane fuel I sure as hell wouldn't be using octane boosters to try and *hope* I achieved that.


You are soooo full of ****! We both put octane boost in our cars before we hit the spot! It had been a discussion of ours also. Don't lie just to make your punk ass look better! *****! :pissed:

[roo]

I'm not lying. I have no clue what the hell you are talking about :confused:

[moparornocar]

No? I've only used toluene in my car once and that was the time I raced brook's sonic blue mustang :confused:

I already stated above that it made a difference. The fact of the matter is It might of raised the octane level from 91 to 91.5 for all we know and that might of been all it needed to keep the ecu happy. If I was tuned for 100 octane fuel I sure as hell wouldn't be using octane boosters to try and *hope* I achieved that.


You are soooo full of ****! We both put octane boost in our cars before we hit the spot! It had been a discussion of ours also. Don't lie just to make your punk ass look better! *****! :pissed:

OH Snap!

[roo]

Ok, I'm lying. I use octane booster all the time because it's economical, safe, and makes more power.

[clint]

I'm not lying. I have no clue what the hell you are talking about :confused:

The night we both drove to Lincoln from York. We were screwing around on the interstate. I pulled over to check my turbo. I wasn't running a gasket betweeen the mani and turbo. Remember now?!

[clint]

Ok, I'm lying. I use octane booster all the time because it's economical and makes more power.


Im not saying that. Im just saying it works and has its place. Dont cry! :(

[roo]

When did I say it didn't work? If it raised octane even .0001 % it technically worked.

[clint]

Im done! Goodnight! :bored1:

[moparornocar]

I find this halarious! For four pages while Four Cam Torino brought specs, links and some intelligent thought into the debate, And we brought questions with links , articles of people with high HP Cobras running MMTadded octane boost with success.Even Kenne bell suggested it's use. Roo on the other hand brought nothing to the table but BS one liners trying to make us look stupid for even questioning others that have used it, All to try and make yourself look "Smart".Then when it was pointed out that it DOES work, you try to interject in a way that makes you look like you knew it all along, And the truth comes out that YOU have used it with some kind of success!!! Can you say HYPOCRIT? Any of the below sound familiar?

"I cannot believe someone with a 500HP+ car would try it, go ahead engines are cheap!"
"why would you **** around with octane boosters if you were messing with that kind of power? That's just asking for trouble."

" I guess I would rather leave it where I know it's safe than start mixing **** together and hoping its going to do the job. There is quite a bit of money on the line if the mixture isn't right."


I also find it funny how those that claim to know so much threw their two cents worth into this asking "Why is this even debated?"" Or" I can't believe it is being debated?""It so funny". Have now been proven wrong and that it does actually work!!!
Best part of the whole thing is We (Mattmoto ) and I never actually used it!lollollollollollollollollol:bolt:

[STOK5OH]

I've been "proven wrong" because I chuckled at the discussion? mmmk.
UH,sure.
I've used octane booster before,in my caprice coupe w/a 300hp vortec motor on a hot day and the only gas I could get without running out was 90...Im sure it put it up to 90.09,which is certainly closer to 91,as oppose. I don't think I'd be suicidal enough to run it in my boosted 675+ hp motor though,or even ponder it for that matter. lol

[roo]

I find this halarious! For four pages while Four Cam Torino brought specs, links and some intelligent thought into the debate, And we brought questions with links , articles of people with high HP Cobras running MMTadded octane boost with success.Even Kenne bell suggested it's use. Roo on the other hand brought nothing to the table but BS one liners trying to make us look stupid for even questioning others that have used it, All to try and make yourself look "Smart".Then when it was pointed out that it DOES work, you try to interject in a way that makes you look like you knew it all along, And the truth comes out that YOU have used it with some kind of success!!! Can you say HYPOCRIT? Any of the below sound familiar?

"I cannot believe someone with a 500HP+ car would try it, go ahead engines are cheap!"
"why would you **** around with octane boosters if you were messing with that kind of power? That's just asking for trouble."

" I guess I would rather leave it where I know it's safe than start mixing **** together and hoping its going to do the job. There is quite a bit of money on the line if the mixture isn't right."


I also find it funny how those that claim to know so much threw their two cents worth into this asking "Why is this even debated?"" Or" I can't believe it is being debated?""It so funny". Have now been proven wrong and that it does actually work!!!
Best part of the whole thing is We (Mattmoto ) and I never actually used it!lollollollollollollollollol:bolt:


Please show me where I contradicted myself. Good luck

[roo]

Just to minimize the confusion here I'll try to clarify. Using octane boosters to run a race gas tune is gay. It was obviously tuned to run on actual race gas so why not run it on that? I said that in the beginning. That hasn't changed. I ran toluene in a car that was tuned to run on 91, not race gas. The only reason I was running it was to keep the ecu from pulling timing. The car would run regardless on 91 but the ecu allows full timing if it's happy.

Backyard Bob on the other hand is trying to mix up 100+ octane fuel to run a race tune and make 50 more hp because 550hp isn't enough. The car was never tuned to run on 91 octane fuel + 50 cans of octane booster but that's cool. Like I said, engines are cheap. Plus I'm sure Bob has the technology to verify his mixture meets the octane requirements needed. Burn rates and ignition timing aren't even an issue.

[4 cam torino]

Roo's points are very valid. The Reid Vapor pressure, specific gravity, and other properties of pump gas and race gas are different. Not only that, those properties of different brands of race gas are different. If you tune for VP 100 octane and then start running Torco, Rocket, or some other brand's 100 octane your tune could be off. So by tuning with race gas and then trying to make race gas from pump gas and octane booster to create 100 octane you might have problems. Now if you tuned the car on octane boosted pump gas and then always ran that your tune would always be valid. It would seem like you would be better off just running race gas over doing that as I think you are getting a much more known quality of fuel with race gas than any random pump gas but that option exists. If you go to a race gas company's website i thikn they will show you all the properties of that fuel so you know what you are dealing with and everything.

[4 cam torino]

Rockett Brand:
http://www.rockettbrand.com/technicals/technicals.htm
A page for one of the specific fuels with the items I was talking about:
http://www.rockettbrand.com/technicals/100.htm

Torco:
http://www.torco.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=3
Lowest they had was 104 in this particular fuel line, I was looking for 100 since that would be direct comparison to the Rockett:
http://www.torco.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=208&Itemid=3

The info VP gives out is less extensive, i'm sure you could obtain all the data the other companies give if you looked harder
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_fuels.html#unleaded

[moparornocar]

Roo's points are very valid. The Reid Vapor pressure, specific gravity, and other properties of pump gas and race gas are different. Not only that, those properties of different brands of race gas are different. If you tune for VP 100 octane and then start running Torco, Rocket, or some other brand's 100 octane your tune could be off. So by tuning with race gas and then trying to make race gas from pump gas and octane booster to create 100 octane you might have problems. Now if you tuned the car on octane boosted pump gas and then always ran that your tune would always be valid. It would seem like you would be better off just running race gas over doing that as I think you are getting a much more known quality of fuel with race gas than any random pump gas but that option exists. If you go to a race gas company's website i thikn they will show you all the properties of that fuel so you know what you are dealing with and everything.


I think it has already been established that we were going to take that route(race gas), Roos points however are a dollar short and a day late, During the entire debate he had no intrest in adding anything positive to the entire thread until the end! Until it was actually proven to a point that it must work to use OB to some degree that he decided to add a little to this entire thread. fact of the debate was, can some octane boosters work? I guess yes they can, Are we going to use them? I don't think so. Have some that say they don't work used them? Looks like they did? Is it wrong to question or inquire if something works or not and use information to either dispute or prove it? I don't think so.

[moparornocar]

I've been "proven wrong" because I chuckled at the discussion? mmmk.
UH,sure.
I've used octane booster before,in my caprice coupe w/a 300hp vortec motor on a hot day and the only gas I could get without running out was 90...Im sure it put it up to 90.09,which is certainly closer to 91,as oppose. I don't think I'd be suicidal enough to run it in my boosted 675+ hp motor though,or even ponder it for that matter. lol

The only reason to even ponder it as it was printed in a national magazine as an example of a person using it at over 800RWHP. It was then a question that was brought up in a Cobra specific forum that was then drug over here! With the exception of Four Cam Torino, I don't think there are many others here with enough knowledge about the subject , That is why it was not actually put up here for discussion!

[roo]

I think it has already been established that we were going to take that route(race gas), Roos points however are a dollar short and a day late, During the entire debate he had no intrest in adding anything positive to the entire thread until the end! Until it was actually proven to a point that it must work to use OB to some degree that he decided to add a little to this entire thread. fact of the debate was, can some octane boosters work? I guess yes they can, Are we going to use them? I don't think so. Have some that say they don't work used them? Looks like they did? Is it wrong to question or inquire if something works or not and use information to either dispute or prove it? I don't think so.

I got right to the point.

[4 cam torino]

Here's some more thought. No one else probably cares because I'm really almost answering my own question. Rockett has blending tables as seen in links they have on the first link I posted a couple posts back about the fuel properties.
http://www.rockettbrand.com/technicals/documents/BlendingCharts/92OctaneBlendingChart.pdf
That's one for 92, since you guys can get 92. That table is based on the Chemistry mixture formula I posted early on in this thread. If you use that formula you would get this table. So the mixture formula works for mixing two fuels. Now, fuels are a mixture of things in themselves to start with. I read several times that some pump gas is as much as 10% tolulene to start with to get the octane you see on the front of the pump. So a gallon of gas is not made purely of things with octane ratings. Somewhere in this thought how a small amount of MMT can raise the octane of 20 times that amount of gas by as much as 7 (R+M)/2 points. I'd still like to find someone who can provide a better explanation but I sort of understand the track that the explanation should be along.

The 800 HP Cobra said they actually tuned it on octane boosted pump gas right? So I suppose as long as they stick with octane boosted pump gas the tune the developed with octane boosted pump gas is always valid. I'm not sure that's really a good way to do things, but one huge advantage of it would be the fact that it would be far easier to find gas if you road tripped your 800 HP car. You just have to plan ahead enough to get gas that isn't **** rather than having to find gas stations that actually sell race gas. Although it would require you to leave home with a case of bottles of octane booster in your trunk.

I definitely will not be shooting for 800 HP. Even though I can get 93 here with no problem I will want to be at a power level that can be supported by 91. I suppose if I go turbo I can easily adjust, and if I could see someone's set up that had a nice curve and follow that route i might go turbo. But I know a Kenne Bell will give me a nice curve and I think I would always be plenty happy with the power I could make on 91 octane with the KB. There really is only so much power you can use driving off a corner anyway. 800 HP would be hard to drive up out of a corner. They don't put VHT on road courses, unless you're talking the front straight of Topeka since it's a drag strip too.

[moparornocar]

Again a very informative post that not only has a good link ,And addresses the issues in the octane boost question, But also ties right back to the original actual start of HIS thread.

[4 cam torino]

HAHA, you noticed that little attempt at returning to the original topic, eh? :)

[moparornocar]

yes I did, sorry your thread got side tracked , Some of the blame lies here and some on you, But hey , how do we learn new things if we don't ask questions?

[4 cam torino]

like I said in the PM, don't worry about it. It lies mostly on me, I brought it here from SVTP. I'm trying to keep my post count down there. I'm at less than 10 in like 5 years I think, lol.

[82355]

With the exception of Four Cam Torino, I don't think there are many others here with enough knowledge about the subject , That is why it was not actually put up here for discussion!

Blow me. I am not interested enough to go look up the facts to prove to anyone, that while yes, Octane boost does work (just enough to prevent them from getting sued for false advertising), it is still just a gimmick preying upon the stupid.

Martin

[clint]

With the exception of Four Cam Torino, I don't think there are many others here with enough knowledge about the subject , That is why it was not actually put up here for discussion!

Blow me. I am not interested enough to go look up the facts to prove to anyone, that while yes, Octane boost does work (just enough to prevent them from getting sued for false advertising), it is still just a gimmick preying upon the stupid.

Martin

Thats a pretty bold statement! Im sure you have something to back that up. I would love to hear it?! :ohnoes:

[roo]

:worthless:


http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5723/baseok1.png

[82355]

With the exception of Four Cam Torino, I don't think there are many others here with enough knowledge about the subject , That is why it was not actually put up here for discussion!

Blow me. I am not interested enough to go look up the facts to prove to anyone, that while yes, Octane boost does work (just enough to prevent them from getting sued for false advertising), it is still just a gimmick preying upon the stupid.

Martin

Thats a pretty bold statement! Im sure you have something to back that up. I would love to hear it?! :ohnoes:


Yeah, octane boost is for ****ing idiots. It really works well in conjunction with a Tornado and a magnet on you're fuel line. I have had to go through a class on fuels, we did the math, I knew octrane boost was a joke before I took the class, and really knew after.

Martin

[clint]

Wholy big pix batman! Roo your silly! You don't need octane boost to do that to a Ford! ROFL

[roo]

Get a bigger monitor ;)

[clint]

With the exception of Four Cam Torino, I don't think there are many others here with enough knowledge about the subject , That is why it was not actually put up here for discussion!

Blow me. I am not interested enough to go look up the facts to prove to anyone, that while yes, Octane boost does work (just enough to prevent them from getting sued for false advertising), it is still just a gimmick preying upon the stupid.

Martin

Thats a pretty bold statement! Im sure you have something to back that up. I would love to hear it?! :ohnoes:


Yeah, octane boost is for ****ing idiots. It really works well in conjunction with a Tornado and a magnet on you're fuel line. I have had to go through a class on fuels, we did the math, I knew octrane boost was a joke before I took the class, and really knew after.

Martin

Im sure you tested all of the different brands to right?

[clint]

What kind of fuel class was this?

[clint]

Get a bigger monitor ;)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Burn!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

[82355]

I don't need to test something to prove physics right. A couple three scientists have done that already.

Martin

[clint]

I don't need to test something to prove physics right. A couple three scientists have done that already.

Martin

Let me get this right! You can get on here and say that all octane boost is crap, multi million dolllar companies are ripping people off, your class proved that, and that the people that have used it with sucess are full of ****, and you won't back it up with anything?

[82355]

Pretty much. Prove to me that the Torco **** you are bragging about works. Let me guess, Torco is something you sale to customers from your shop?

Martin

[clint]

Answering a question with a question. Your the one that made the statement that all octane boost doesn't work. Why won't you back it up with something. At least explain yourself. Tell us about the fuel class maybe? Something! And no I don't sell it at my shop. But I do know that it is an effective octane boost and quite different from the stuff you buy at wally world!

[STOK5OH]

I run straight octane booster,then I add a pint of 87 octane.

[4 cam torino]

Get a bigger monitor ;)

Or set the resolution higher. 1920 x 1280 ftw

[4 cam torino]

Adding MMT really seems to be sort of like adding lead, but it's not lead you're adding but manganese. Many VP race fuels contain 4.23 grams per gallon of lead. http://www.geocities.com/vpracegasatlanta/fuels.htm So if you add 20 grams of manganese to 5 gallons of gas you should see a difference in octane because it is similar to lead but without evidence of harming cats and O2's. Adding 20 grams by way of an octane booster would not be difficult at all. The fact that you are adding something similar to lead also makes the MMT manufacturer claims of less valve seat wear in old cars make more sense. I'm going to bet Martin's fuel class did not cover MMT based octane boosters. That's why it works, it isn't like adding a liquid like tolulene, it's more like adding a metal, like lead. It also acts like lead in the discoloration that occurs on the plugs. The EPA tried banning MMT, assuming it worked like lead in plugging up cats and fouling O2s, the MMT producer sued saying it didn't and they had no proof that it did. The EPA did testing and could not prove harm to emissions equipment and was forced to unban it. That really seems to be the whole story. All the benefits of leaded gas without the emissions hardware killing effects of lead. Although Manganese emissions are apparently somewhat harmful, not as bad as lead emissions but not good still.

It took me 4 days but I've got it figured out.

[82355]

Nice.

Martin