Alley
23rd July 2008, 07:07 PM
First, lets not turn this into a The Shop vs. Dynoport thing. I'd like some good unbiased answers.
Anyway, I had always planned after my exhaust to get tuned by just doing a mail order tune. Its $600 and I'm sure they'll just give me a generic program.
I've been thinking about just buying the VEC software which is a standalone system for the most part but has some piggy back qualities as well. Its $1,100. And I know for starters I'll probably get more HP out of this since I'll be tuneing for specificly my car. And I can make changes anytime I want.
I'm not sure if either of them have experience with this software or how much work is involved in it. But who do you think would be my best choice for the tuneing?
Here is a description of the software. VERY LONG....
We wanted our customers to have an enhanced driving experience as often as possible so the VEC3 was designed to produce it's largest gains in the mid-range RPM band because that is where the vehicle is driven the most. Producing a higher RWHP & RWTQ number at 5500 RPM was not our goal as that RPM is rarely used. Simply inserting a pre-programmed Smart Card immediately changes the program settings for the current driving situation or octane of fuel as desired.
Features & Benefits:
Manifold pressure and RPM referenced fuel calibration.
Manifold pressure and RPM referenced ignition timing calibration.
Internal 2.5 bar pressure sensor.
Analog input from external 0-5V sensor (allows utilization of stock sensors for reference input).
Analog output voltage limit function (useful on forced induction using stock MAP sensor).
Allows for the use of significantly larger fuel injectors while retaining proper air / fuel ratios.
Individual cylinder fuel trim.
Internal injector drivers operate high resistance fuel injectors.
Smart Card programmable. No need to link to VEC3 in order to change the program.
Allows for stock-like drivability on heavily modified engines.
Programmable RPM limit.
Utilizes factory PCM adaptive capability to properly adjust for various operating conditions, such as altitude, engine coolant temperatures, intake air temperatures, etc.
Programmable output signal (12V- negative) can be used to activate a switched component or PWM (pulse width modulation) controlled component.
Plugs into factory wiring harness for easy installation on some vehicles.
Tuning software included when purchased as a "stand alone" unit.
Does not alter other stock PCM functions, allowing for full OBD2 functionality.
Logging feature allows viewing of delivered spark advance, fuel injector pulsewidth, RPM and manifold pressure.
Intake Air Temperature offset.
System Overview:
The VEC3 Viper Engine Calibrator allows precise tuning of the air to fuel ratio and ignition timing over the entire operating range of the engine. Simply inserting a pre-programmed Smart Card immediately changes the program settings for the current driving situation or octane of fuel as desired.
The unit contains its own fuel injector drivers and is wired in between the factory PCM and engine. It is especially useful for recalibration of both forced induction engines and those with extensive modifications, allowing the tuner to quickly get the engine running correctly. Stock engines can also benefit greatly from improving the ignition timing and fuel curves.
The VEC3 is similar to a stand-alone engine management system, but also has similarities to a piggyback system. We consider it as working “in series” with the factory PCM.
In a true stand-alone system, you must program for every operating condition the engine will experience, such as load, throttle position, RPM, engine temperature, air temperature, etc. These systems can be quite complex to tune. Most PCM’s also control radiator fan operation, A/C operation, emissions operation and diagnostic functions. Stand-alones are generally not compatible with OBD2 emissions testing in that they replace the factory PCM and will not link up with state run emissions equipment. These systems are best suited for racetrack use where engine tuners can fine-tune the program to the environment of the moment for optimal performance.
In a typical piggyback system, control over the engine is done by manipulating inputs to the stock PCM. Manifold air pressure and oxygen sensor voltages can be altered in order to make the PCM change its load calibration, thus altering fuel and ignition advance curves. Reducing MAP sensor voltage has the effect of reducing injector pulse width by making the PCM “think” the engine is under greater vacuum than actual. At the same time, ignition timing is advanced due to the PCM believing the engine is under a lower load. Conversely, increasing voltage has the opposite effect, increasing fuel and reducing timing advance. When tuning with systems of this type, you can find yourself in situations where you can have proper part throttle tuning, or proper full throttle tuning, but rarely both if the engine is heavily modified or has forced induction.
The VEC3 offers the best of both worlds. Stand alone system control, but with the simplicity of a piggyback system. The VEC3 controls fuel and timing, leaving the stock PCM to handle all other functions, such as idle speed, A/C control, emissions operation, etc.
System Description:
The VEC3 uses the factory PCM injector pulse output as a timing reference, which can be scaled within a range of 0% to 199%. This is beneficial in that if you’re using larger injectors, you can use a calculated percentage of the stock PCM pulse to make the larger injectors flow the same as the stock ones. This allows the engine to start up and immediately operate with the proper air/fuel ratio in closed loop operation. For use under a heavier load (full throttle / boost), you can create a fuel curve that begins adding milliseconds of injector pulse width as the load / boost increases. The fuel curve can be further trimmed based on the engine RPM, since the engine efficiency / fuel demand can change with RPM. Negative values can also be placed in load and RPM tables, allowing you to shut off injectors under deceleration and trim down fuel when it is otherwise too rich (both very beneficial for naturally aspirated engines).
Ignition timing can be controlled within a range of 25 degrees advance to 25 degrees retard from the factory settings. The curve can be configured based on engine load and RPM. The factory PCM continues to drive the coils, though the input and resulting delivered spark advance is controlled by the VEC3. In places where the factory programmed timing curve was too advanced for an engine, such as under boost, it can be retarded, while leaving normal timing in vacuum conditions. You can also add timing advance in areas where the factory programmed timing advance was insufficient, such as for naturally aspirated engines.
The VEC3 has a programmable 12V- output wire. The output can be used to operate a relay, turn on a shift light, operate a PWM injector circuit, etc. The output is signal (manifold pressure or voltage) and engine RPM referenced. For example, you can create a program which will turn on a Nitrous relay, increase the injector pulse and decrease the ignition advance all at the same time.
For use on engines that pressurize the stock intake manifold, the VEC3 has a programmable analog output signal limiting function. This allows the MAP sensor signal to be processed by the VEC3 before going to the original equipment PCM. The tuner can adjust the maximum allowable voltage that will go out to the stock PCM in an RPM referenced table, keeping check engine lights from occurring due to the PCM seeing a MAP sensor voltage higher than normal when under boost.
The different fuel and timing programs are written using the VEC3 software. Program files can be modified, saved, e-mailed and written to Smart Cards with serial and USB plug reader / writers. The VEC3 has an internal Smart Card reader and writer. To change the program, simply slide the card into the slot and wait for the green ready light to blink (typically 1-2 seconds). Using Smart Cards allows you to quickly change the program without having to link up to the VEC3. You can have an unlimited number of Smart Card programs (they are rewrite-able) and they are compact enough to put in your wallet.
Anyway, I had always planned after my exhaust to get tuned by just doing a mail order tune. Its $600 and I'm sure they'll just give me a generic program.
I've been thinking about just buying the VEC software which is a standalone system for the most part but has some piggy back qualities as well. Its $1,100. And I know for starters I'll probably get more HP out of this since I'll be tuneing for specificly my car. And I can make changes anytime I want.
I'm not sure if either of them have experience with this software or how much work is involved in it. But who do you think would be my best choice for the tuneing?
Here is a description of the software. VERY LONG....
We wanted our customers to have an enhanced driving experience as often as possible so the VEC3 was designed to produce it's largest gains in the mid-range RPM band because that is where the vehicle is driven the most. Producing a higher RWHP & RWTQ number at 5500 RPM was not our goal as that RPM is rarely used. Simply inserting a pre-programmed Smart Card immediately changes the program settings for the current driving situation or octane of fuel as desired.
Features & Benefits:
Manifold pressure and RPM referenced fuel calibration.
Manifold pressure and RPM referenced ignition timing calibration.
Internal 2.5 bar pressure sensor.
Analog input from external 0-5V sensor (allows utilization of stock sensors for reference input).
Analog output voltage limit function (useful on forced induction using stock MAP sensor).
Allows for the use of significantly larger fuel injectors while retaining proper air / fuel ratios.
Individual cylinder fuel trim.
Internal injector drivers operate high resistance fuel injectors.
Smart Card programmable. No need to link to VEC3 in order to change the program.
Allows for stock-like drivability on heavily modified engines.
Programmable RPM limit.
Utilizes factory PCM adaptive capability to properly adjust for various operating conditions, such as altitude, engine coolant temperatures, intake air temperatures, etc.
Programmable output signal (12V- negative) can be used to activate a switched component or PWM (pulse width modulation) controlled component.
Plugs into factory wiring harness for easy installation on some vehicles.
Tuning software included when purchased as a "stand alone" unit.
Does not alter other stock PCM functions, allowing for full OBD2 functionality.
Logging feature allows viewing of delivered spark advance, fuel injector pulsewidth, RPM and manifold pressure.
Intake Air Temperature offset.
System Overview:
The VEC3 Viper Engine Calibrator allows precise tuning of the air to fuel ratio and ignition timing over the entire operating range of the engine. Simply inserting a pre-programmed Smart Card immediately changes the program settings for the current driving situation or octane of fuel as desired.
The unit contains its own fuel injector drivers and is wired in between the factory PCM and engine. It is especially useful for recalibration of both forced induction engines and those with extensive modifications, allowing the tuner to quickly get the engine running correctly. Stock engines can also benefit greatly from improving the ignition timing and fuel curves.
The VEC3 is similar to a stand-alone engine management system, but also has similarities to a piggyback system. We consider it as working “in series” with the factory PCM.
In a true stand-alone system, you must program for every operating condition the engine will experience, such as load, throttle position, RPM, engine temperature, air temperature, etc. These systems can be quite complex to tune. Most PCM’s also control radiator fan operation, A/C operation, emissions operation and diagnostic functions. Stand-alones are generally not compatible with OBD2 emissions testing in that they replace the factory PCM and will not link up with state run emissions equipment. These systems are best suited for racetrack use where engine tuners can fine-tune the program to the environment of the moment for optimal performance.
In a typical piggyback system, control over the engine is done by manipulating inputs to the stock PCM. Manifold air pressure and oxygen sensor voltages can be altered in order to make the PCM change its load calibration, thus altering fuel and ignition advance curves. Reducing MAP sensor voltage has the effect of reducing injector pulse width by making the PCM “think” the engine is under greater vacuum than actual. At the same time, ignition timing is advanced due to the PCM believing the engine is under a lower load. Conversely, increasing voltage has the opposite effect, increasing fuel and reducing timing advance. When tuning with systems of this type, you can find yourself in situations where you can have proper part throttle tuning, or proper full throttle tuning, but rarely both if the engine is heavily modified or has forced induction.
The VEC3 offers the best of both worlds. Stand alone system control, but with the simplicity of a piggyback system. The VEC3 controls fuel and timing, leaving the stock PCM to handle all other functions, such as idle speed, A/C control, emissions operation, etc.
System Description:
The VEC3 uses the factory PCM injector pulse output as a timing reference, which can be scaled within a range of 0% to 199%. This is beneficial in that if you’re using larger injectors, you can use a calculated percentage of the stock PCM pulse to make the larger injectors flow the same as the stock ones. This allows the engine to start up and immediately operate with the proper air/fuel ratio in closed loop operation. For use under a heavier load (full throttle / boost), you can create a fuel curve that begins adding milliseconds of injector pulse width as the load / boost increases. The fuel curve can be further trimmed based on the engine RPM, since the engine efficiency / fuel demand can change with RPM. Negative values can also be placed in load and RPM tables, allowing you to shut off injectors under deceleration and trim down fuel when it is otherwise too rich (both very beneficial for naturally aspirated engines).
Ignition timing can be controlled within a range of 25 degrees advance to 25 degrees retard from the factory settings. The curve can be configured based on engine load and RPM. The factory PCM continues to drive the coils, though the input and resulting delivered spark advance is controlled by the VEC3. In places where the factory programmed timing curve was too advanced for an engine, such as under boost, it can be retarded, while leaving normal timing in vacuum conditions. You can also add timing advance in areas where the factory programmed timing advance was insufficient, such as for naturally aspirated engines.
The VEC3 has a programmable 12V- output wire. The output can be used to operate a relay, turn on a shift light, operate a PWM injector circuit, etc. The output is signal (manifold pressure or voltage) and engine RPM referenced. For example, you can create a program which will turn on a Nitrous relay, increase the injector pulse and decrease the ignition advance all at the same time.
For use on engines that pressurize the stock intake manifold, the VEC3 has a programmable analog output signal limiting function. This allows the MAP sensor signal to be processed by the VEC3 before going to the original equipment PCM. The tuner can adjust the maximum allowable voltage that will go out to the stock PCM in an RPM referenced table, keeping check engine lights from occurring due to the PCM seeing a MAP sensor voltage higher than normal when under boost.
The different fuel and timing programs are written using the VEC3 software. Program files can be modified, saved, e-mailed and written to Smart Cards with serial and USB plug reader / writers. The VEC3 has an internal Smart Card reader and writer. To change the program, simply slide the card into the slot and wait for the green ready light to blink (typically 1-2 seconds). Using Smart Cards allows you to quickly change the program without having to link up to the VEC3. You can have an unlimited number of Smart Card programs (they are rewrite-able) and they are compact enough to put in your wallet.