next prez??

[David]

thoughts?

[Lepa]

a black man

[David2]

i'm thinking a white man from new york...

[STOK5OH]

Im fine with Clinton,long as that itali-jew bastard guilani doesnt make it in.

[DSMMIKE]

hillary ftmfw

[STOK5OH]

your cool!

[Lepa]

This isn't ness so we don't need yellow for sarcasm

[David]

its assumed that everything ssaid here is with sarcasm

[STOK5OH]

**** YOUR COUCHES,MOVE TO OMAHA THEN!

[Lepa]

That color really fits you andrew.

[ADV1]

Fred Thompsen FTW

[JesterMX6]

eat my shorts

[BossRoss]

obama ftw

[JesterMX6]

George Fayad for prez

[AWeb80]

^^^^^^

my av

[coop]

honestly....it cant get any worse with whoever wins

[David]

honestly....it cant get any worse with whoever wins


while i understand the point your trying to make with both know it could get worse.

[coop]

i think most historians would put GWB at the bottom 5 in presidents

[MadmaX]

historians will say anything to get referenced.

[coop]

not everything is about name recognition

[Fyrtruck]

Leave it to a bunch of street racers to decide who should be President...

[coop]

actually...we live in a country run by a REPRESENTATIVE democracy...our votes do not matter....only those hand chosen individuals which make up our electoral college have a say....so really its just a bunch of street racers talking about who should be the next president....but anyways...kind of a digression...i apologize

[82355]

I am not sure if I would prefer Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama.

Martin

[dave]

historians will say anything to get referenced.

Without looking it up, name 1 historian.


exactly..........


i am going to vote for kucinich or paul.

should actually say paul or kucinich, in that order now. out of all the canidates, they are the only two who seem to care
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_-6_LqRJEM

ill post more later. and i have probably been folowing this more closely than a lot of people on here. i am very open to a debate about this. (civilized)

[David]

dave, do you like the lower case?

btw... 8 more years of bush :)

[dave]

i dont think this country will EVER recover from what bush's presidency did to it.

[MadmaX]

Without looking it up, name 1 historian.


exactly..........



no seriously.

It's like having letters after your name.

[moparornocar]

which mutimillionare do you want to make desicions for you? I say write in a real deal American. Put you own names in the blank, Think about it? What if everyone did?

[MadmaX]

uh? everyone?

[moparornocar]

Yeah, the electoral college would pick their winner and we could send our own message, That no one knows what it best for you but yourself.

[MadmaX]

where/why/when did you establish this faith in humankind?

[coop]

through jesus, my lord and savior

[Johnny]

i havent paid much attention, but obama seems good

[Johnny]

then again everything seems good in comparision with the ass hat we have now

[David]

FYI's My server space is deep. wont' be deleting any of these post.

Will make it fun to come back too:)

[MadmaX]

through jesus, my lord and savior

that's kinda contradictory.

[MadmaX]

NEways...

this made me chuckle;
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/heartbroken_bush_runs_after_0

[dave]

FYI's My server space is deep. wont' be deleting any of these post.

Will make it fun to come back too:)

haha, yeah. like when i said "youll be sorry" about bush on SCR. then what happened. actually, i think the exact phrase was "ill be the one saying i told you so"

[David]

haha, yeah. like when i said "youll be sorry" about bush on SCR. then what happened. actually, i think the exact phrase was "ill be the one saying i told you so"


Idk if i was a member then ... but yes... because with every debate only time will tell.

[JesterMX6]

George Fayad for president

[moparornocar]

where/why/when did you establish this faith in humankind?

Well, Poor people know how to be rich? They dream about, plan how they would spend their money, things they would do , Poor people just know to be rich. How many rich politicians do you think dream about being poor? How they will get that bill paid by friday before the lights go out? How to get good deals at the bargin store? How many times they are turned away from things because they would be broke? NONE, I don't think if you cannot understand what it takes to be poor and survive,You should have that much power over that many people that are poor.

[David]

man makes a point...

[JesterMX6]

George Fayad for president

[coop]

i like waffles

[Bobby Light]

DAVE THOMPSON!!!

[JesterMX6]

George Fayad for President

:turbin:

[coop]

^with the mentality of the average american....that last name is going to be trouble....i suggest Washington

[JesterMX6]

:lol: true.


especially when i make turbins mandatory head gear for all white house employees

:turbin:

[dave]

Lol. i couldnt be president. i wish. i would like to have someone smarter than me though. i dont think that is to much to ask for.
i would also like someone more hard working that me.

[MadmaX]

Well, Poor people know how to be rich? They dream about, plan how they would spend their money, things they would do , Poor people just know to be rich. How many rich politicians do you think dream about being poor? How they will get that bill paid by friday before the lights go out? How to get good deals at the bargin store? How many times they are turned away from things because they would be broke? NONE, I don't think if you cannot understand what it takes to be poor and survive,You should have that much power over that many people that are poor.



I was making reference to voters, but I see you've turned this into something about the candidates. Not a problem, but I completely disagree with the point you made.

I am not interested in handing over decision making powers to someone who has been in a position where they could not pay their bills or live the way they wanted to. If they where not able to live their own life successfully, I don't think that qualifies them to manage more.
You will probably rebuttal with how you meant they where poor some time in their life, not necessarily now. If you've ever listened to a campaign speech, you'll note that's been a running gag since the dawn of time; "I was born the son/daughter of a poor turd farmer...."

[Ervin]

I think this thread deserves a poll

[David]

I think cnn has one.

[Bobby Light]

fred thompson FTW

[moparornocar]

I was making reference to voters, but I see you've turned this into something about the candidates. Not a problem, but I completely disagree with the point you made.

I am not interested in handing over decision making powers to someone who has been in a position where they could not pay their bills or live the way they wanted to. If they where not able to live their own life successfully, I don't think that qualifies them to manage more.
You will probably rebuttal with how you meant they where poor some time in their life, not necessarily now. If you've ever listened to a campaign speech, you'll note that's been a running gag since the dawn of time; "I was born the son/daughter of a poor turd farmer...."


I don't think you understand either of my post , So I will not waste my time with rebuttel of any kind.

[schovil69]

Thompson FTW

[dave]

i think that if another republican president besides ron paul is elected our country will collapse.

and im not joking. i dont think this country can survive another war president. we are making way too many enemies and spending WAY too much money.

i have a feeling we may be ****ed already. i dont think there is any way we can get out of the hole this president has dug for us.... it makes me sick to think about.

but whats a couple trillion dollars right?
its only something like $50k for every man woman and child in this country. something we will never be able to afford to pay back. this country is ****ed. and its getting worse because of an idiotic irresponsible president.

[MadmaX]

I don't think you understand either of my post , So I will not waste my time with rebuttel of any kind.



i'm disappointed. but it just seemed to me you want someone in charge who had failed at life.

[schovil69]

It takes more than a president to go to war, David. You should no this.

Hell, if one man has all say in it, then vote for me. I'll have every troop in every country home within a couple of weeks. We'll just protect our borders and small economies around the world will crash. Our drunken soldiers won't be there to blow their cash. Oh yeah, we be drunken.

Seriously, though, it's hard to vote when your only choices are between a turd sandwich and a giant douche.

[David]

giant doubche please.

[moparornocar]

i'm disappointed. but it just seemed to me you want someone in charge who had failed at life.

Actually I take that back , I will post. I don't want a person that has no intrest in taking care of this country. The entire crop of canidates are all rich and wealthy. They will say how they want this or that , but are hypocrits. One will do whatever it takes to make as much money as possible, one will take us back a dozen years , a few will want to take you from craddle to grave and strain the working man to death while caving in to immigration . Most on one side have no or are not in touch with any kind of morals, Some will tell you how to live to protect our enviroment but will fly private jets, live in huge mansions and have a limo pick them up. You are probably right, we need to continue with millionaires that will still be millionaires long after they are out of office?
We have , Accounts receivable tax, building tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corprate income tax, dog license tax, exise tax, federal income tax, federal unemployment tax, fishing license tax, food tax (some items), fuel permit tax, gasoline tax, gross receipts tax, hunting license tax, inheritance tax,inventory tax, IRS intrest charges IRS penalties (tax on top of tax), liquor tax, luxury tax, marriage license tax, medicare tax, motel lodging tax, personal property tax, real estate tax, service charge tax, social security tax, road useage tax, sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, school tax, state income tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal universal service fee tax, telephone federal , state and local surcharge tax, telephone recurring and non recurring charges tax, telephone usage tax, utility tax, vehicle registration tax, vehicle sales tax, watercraft registration tax, well permit tax, workers compensation tax. Think about it? Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago , we had no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world and mom stayed home to raise the kids. You should all be mad at the politicians. And I still have to "press 1 " for english!

[MadmaX]

And I still have to "press 1 " for english!

rofl.

sounds like you're a fan of fairtax.org

[Bobby Light]

Actually I take that back , I will post. I don't want a person that has no intrest in taking care of this country. The entire crop of canidates are all rich and wealthy. They will say how they want this or that , but are hypocrits. One will do whatever it takes to make as much money as possible, one will take us back a dozen years , a few will want to take you from craddle to grave and strain the working man to death while caving in to immigration . Most on one side have no or are not in touch with any kind of morals, Some will tell you how to live to protect our enviroment but will fly private jets, live in huge mansions and have a limo pick them up. You are probably right, we need to continue with millionaires that will still be millionaires long after they are out of office?
We have , Accounts receivable tax, building tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corprate income tax, dog license tax, exise tax, federal income tax, federal unemployment tax, fishing license tax, food tax (some items), fuel permit tax, gasoline tax, gross receipts tax, hunting license tax, inheritance tax,inventory tax, IRS intrest charges IRS penalties (tax on top of tax), liquor tax, luxury tax, marriage license tax, medicare tax, motel lodging tax, personal property tax, real estate tax, service charge tax, social security tax, road useage tax, sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, school tax, state income tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal universal service fee tax, telephone federal , state and local surcharge tax, telephone recurring and non recurring charges tax, telephone usage tax, utility tax, vehicle registration tax, vehicle sales tax, watercraft registration tax, well permit tax, workers compensation tax. Think about it? Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago , we had no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world and mom stayed home to raise the kids. You should all be mad at the politicians. And I still have to "press 1 " for english!


**

[STOK5OH]

Can we have some comparitive opinions between our current asshat,Reagan and Nixon?
Does anyone see similarities in all three reigns of terror?
My stand is we'll be fine after a few years of this ****face being outta office..in the meantime we just have to brace ourselves for unfortunate weather that always causes a huge spike in gas prices,history is just repeating itself...does anyone besides me remember the early 80's?

[Bobby Light]

Can we have some comparitive opinions between our current asshat,Reagan and Nixon?
Does anyone see similarities in all three reigns of terror?
My stand is we'll be fine after a few years of this ****face being outta office..in the meantime we just have to brace ourselves for unfortunate weather that always causes a huge spike in gas prices,history is just repeating itself...does anyone besides me remember the early 80's?

like bein born n ****?

[MadmaX]

Can we have some comparitive opinions between our current asshat,Reagan and Nixon?
Does anyone see similarities in all three reigns of terror?
My stand is we'll be fine after a few years of this ****face being outta office..in the meantime we just have to brace ourselves for unfortunate weather that always causes a huge spike in gas prices,history is just repeating itself...does anyone besides me remember the early 80's?



lol @ spencer

Reagan??

[STOK5OH]

like bein born n ****?



I forgot most here are total baby nutz.:lol:

[STOK5OH]

Reagan??


did i spell it wrong?

[MadmaX]

no, I just hadn't heard anybody lump him with gwb and nixon before.

[David]

Can we have some comparitive opinions between our current asshat,Reagan and Nixon?
Does anyone see similarities in all three reigns of terror?
My stand is we'll be fine after a few years of this ****face being outta office..in the meantime we just have to brace ourselves for unfortunate weather that always causes a huge spike in gas prices,history is just repeating itself...does anyone besides me remember the early 80's?

ya... record breaking indexes ****ing sucks too :(

**** the dow at 13,000 why can't it go down..america is in the worst shape it's ever been... I think i'm gonna move to canada...

[moparornocar]

rofl.

sounds like you're a fan of fairtax.org

I have never been to fair tax .org?( don't know if that is good or bad) I am speaking from how I feel? Right or wrong , I am but only one person and sometimes my thinking is motivated by what happens to me in my world and is subject to change depending on world events or what kind of day I am having.

[STOK5OH]

does anyone believe in a correlation between Bush's profit margin and the rapist gas prices?

[MadmaX]

where can I see a running tally of bush's profit margins, i'll comment then.

[MadmaX]

I have never been to fair tax .org?( don't know if that is good or bad) I am speaking from how I feel....

well are you gonna go look at it or what:lol:

[STOK5OH]

where can I see a running tally of bush's profit margins, i'll comment then.
the name "Harkin" ring a bell?

[MadmaX]

go ahead and bring me up to speed.

[STOK5OH]

Read the bottom post first,it wouldn't let me post it all in one..10K limit=DUMB.


Bush got a second loan of $84,375 in 1989 to acquire 25,000 shares. This time, Bush missed the SEC filing deadline by 15 weeks.

In August 1990, two months after Bush's big sale of Harken stock, the company disclosed an unprecedented quarterly loss of $23-million. The same month, Hussein invaded oil-rich Kuwait. Both events drove Harken shares down to $3, then to $1.25 near the end of the year.

Bush, a member of Harken's audit committee, denied he knew of the upcoming quarterly loss when he sold his shares. But before the June sale, Bush served on Harken's "fairness committee" to determine whether a corporate restructuring would hurt shareholders. The committee met in May (the month before the stock sale), had access to details of Harken's big financial problems and worked closely with financial adviser Smith Barney, which concluded at the time that only drastic action would save Harken.

How bad off was Harken? By the end of 1990, the company posted a $40-million annual loss. Its shareholder equity had plunged to $3-million, down from more than $70-million in 1988.

In 1991, the SEC had completed its investigation of Harken's funny accounting for the sale in 1989 of its Aloha Petroleum subsidiary. The agency ordered Harken to restate its 1989 earnings, meaning that the company's $3.3-million loss was larger: $12.6-million.

Asked this month why Bush and other members of Harken's audit committee didn't see that this Enron-like deal would not pass SEC review, the president responded: "In the corporate world, sometimes things aren't exactly black and white when it comes to accounting procedures."

By April 1991, Bush's long overdue Form 4 filing of his stock sale in 1990 had arrived at the SEC. The tardy filing and suspicious timing of the sale shortly before Harken reported a heavy loss prompted the SEC to open an investigation of Bush's transaction.

That Bush sold Harken shares in 1990 at a price propped up, in part, by faulty 1989 accounting has never been addressed by the SEC.

The SEC investigation of Bush ultimately would be closed without action being taken against the president's son. But the major players in the 1991 SEC inquiry read less like investigative watchdogs and more like an invitation list to a Bush family picnic.

SEC chairman Richard Breeden, appointed by President George Bush, was a former Baker & Botts attorney and longtime Bush administration aide. The SEC's general counsel was James R. Doty (he recused himself in the Bush matter), the same lawyer who earlier represented George W. Bush in his purchase of the Texas Rangers. Doty, too, is a partner with Baker & Botts.

Defending Bush in the SEC investigation was Robert W. Jordan, another lawyer with the Baker & Botts law firm and a former partner with Doty.

In October 2001, Jordan would be confirmed as President George W. Bush's choice as U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia. And James Baker III, secretary of state under the first President Bush, is the current "Baker" in Baker & Botts.

Bush agreed to be interviewed by the SEC, but investigators did not take him up on it, provoking skepticism from some government officials about their thoroughness.

Bruce Hiler, SEC associate director of the enforcement division, later said he faced no political pressure in the investigation. "Of course we were aware we were dealing with the president's son," he said. "But it wasn't intimidating at all."

Hiler, who left the SEC in 1994 for private practice, now represents Jeffrey Skilling, the former CEO of bankrupt Enron Corp.

By the fall of 1993, the SEC ended its inquiry. Hiler sent a letter to Bush's attorney saying "the investigation has been terminated as to the conduct of Mr. Bush, and that, at this time, no enforcement action is contemplated with respect to him."

With the SEC inquiry over, Bush resigned in late 1993 from the Harken board to pursue his successful run for governor of Texas.

By 1998, Bush had served four years as Texas governor and was preparing for a second term. He also was ready to unload his stake in the Texas Rangers. After buying the team for $86-million in 1989, Bush and his co-owners sold the franchise in 1998 to media mogul Tom Hicks for $250-million.

Bush, who held a mere 1.8 percent stake in the Rangers, was paid 12 percent of the sales price in 1998. That unusual boost dramatically enhanced the deal's return to Bush, an elected official.

On a borrowed $606,000 investment that should have returned $2.5-million, Bush received $15-million. His transformation from business failure to success was complete, with help from family friends all along the way.

Said Bush, in a favorite line about his wheeling-and-dealing era in private business: "I was a pit bull on the pant leg of opportunity."

[STOK5OH]

I split em' backwards,this goes in front of that post^.


In the late 1970s, three years after graduating from Harvard Business School, Bush decided to follow in his father's energy business footsteps. He returned home to Midland, Texas, where he incorporated his oil-drilling venture called Arbusto (that's "bush" in Spanish) Energy.

About $3-million poured into Bush's business from uncle Jonathan Bush, a Wall Street banker; grandmother Dorothy Bush; Rite-Aid drugstore chairman and influential Republican Lewis Lehrman; William Draper III, a corporate executive and family friend who would soon be appointed to head the federal Export-Import Bank; and James Bath, a Houston aircraft broker who fronted as an investor for several Saudi Arabian sheiks.

By 1982, with his father serving as the country's vice president, Bush changed the Arbusto name to Bush Exploration Oil Co. with plans to take it public. But oil prices were falling and the company soon ran into financial trouble.

Several wealthy benefactors helped with money, including Philip Uzielli, a friend of James Baker III, a family confidante serving as chief of staff in the Reagan White House. Uzielli bought 10 percent of Bush Exploration for $1-million, though the company was valued at less than $400,000. Bush insists this was no bailout. Uzielli had invested for the "romance" of energy and, perhaps, the chance to buy low, Bush told Time magazine.

Uzielli recalled in 1999 that the investment was a major money loser. "Things were terrible," he said.

By the mid 1980s, Bush Exploration was again in money trouble. Enter two Cincinnati investors -- William DeWitt Jr., son of the former owners of the Cincinnati Reds baseball team, and business partner Mercer Reynolds, who controlled a small energy business called Spectrum 7. They merged with Bush Exploration and chose Bush as chairman and CEO. Though more money was raised, losses at Spectrum 7 grew.

In 1986, struggling Spectrum 7 was acquired by the larger Harken Energy, a Dallas company known by industry figures as a "bottom feeder" and run by Republican fundraiser Alan Quasha. Harken's major investors included billionaire currency speculator George Soros, Ivy League university fund investor Harvard Management Co., and, after Bush joined the board, Saudi investor Abdullah Taha Bakhsh.

As part of the Spectrum buyout, Bush received Harken stock and was named a Harken director and paid consultant. He also gained membership in a group of Harken officials who could exercise options to buy company stock at a 40 percent discount, an unusual perk. Bush later received two low-interest loans from the company -- a corporate practice Bush now says should be stopped -- that were worth $180,375 by 1992.

It wasn't Bush's oil expertise that earned him these financial gains. Harken viewed Bush's famous name as an important asset. "It's obvious why they kept George Bush," Harken founder Phil Kendrick has been quoted as saying. "Just the fact that he's there gives them credibility."

Harken directors believed having "George's name there would be a big help to them," said Spectrum 7's former president, Paul Rea.

In 1988, Cincinnati investor DeWitt called Bush to tell him that aging oil executive Eddie Chiles, the owner of the Texas Rangers and a Bush family friend since the 1950s, was looking for a buyer. Bush and DeWitt, passionate baseball fans, assembled an investor group.

At first, the group lacked deep pockets and enough local Texas participants to please Major League Baseball commissioner Peter Ueberroth. To ensure the Rangers stayed in Texas, and to bolster a pet project of the oldest son of the new U.S. president, Ueberroth recruited Fort Worth financier Richard E. Rainwater, the former hotshot money manager for the billionaire Bass brothers, to take charge.

Rainwater agreed to invest millions, but only after his trusted associate, Edward "Rusty" Rose, was installed as general managing partner. With new money, the group bought the Rangers from Chiles for $86-million.

Though Bush scraped together only $606,000 to invest, he was made a managing partner. The Rangers investors tagged Bush, with his now-famous name, to serve as the group's face to the public.

That role suited the affable Bush perfectly. In turn, the Texas baseball team (and soon, a brand new taxpayer-subsidized stadium in Arlington, near Dallas) gave Bush a base -- after a decade of failures in the oil business -- to start building a political image in the state.

If the Rangers deal looked like a home run, Harken was a foul ball. As a member in 1989 of Harken's audit committee, Bush signed off on a deal, similar to recent shenanigans by Enron, that inflated company earnings.

Here's how it worked: Harken decided to lend money to a partnership of company insiders, which used the money to buy Aloha Petroleum, a Harken subsidiary that owned gas stations in Hawaii. By Harken's way of accounting, the twisted transaction created a multimillion-dollar instant "profit." Harken then recorded a gain of $7.9-million and finished the year with a modest $3.3-million loss. That was a good performance year for Harken.

In reality, the loss was much worse. The SEC later would demand that Harken restate its earnings.

By 1990, Harken's luck had changed for the better.

In a decision that shocked industry experts, Bahrain dropped its negotiations over offshore oil and gas rights with international energy giant Amoco. Instead, the tiny Persian Gulf nation handed a 35-year contract to the struggling and inexperienced Harken.

Bush denied he was a factor in Bahrain's unusual decision, and Harken board members said Bush voiced doubts about whether Harken had the means and expertise for such a distant oil play. Later, Harken executives acknowledged that Bahrain officials were quite aware that the son of the U.S. president was a director.

One result of the Bahrain contract was immediate. Harken stock rose from $4.50 to more than $5.50 a share. But an unprepared Harken lacked cash and had to bring in the Bass brothers as equity partners to finance the drilling. Several years later, after two exploratory wells were drilled in Bahrain and found dry, the Bass partners told Harken they were pulling out of the Bahrain joint venture.

On June 22, 1990, Bush sold $848,560 worth of Harken stock, about 21/2 times its original value, for just more than $4 a share. Even with a $180,375 loan to pay back, Bush realized $668,185 on the sale. He still owned more than 100,000 Harken shares.

This is the stock sale that would pay for most of Bush's stake in the Texas Rangers.

A fascinating mystery: Who bought Bush's shares in Harken? Ralph Smith, who was then an institutional trader for Sutro & Co. in Los Angeles, said he called Bush on the off chance he might want to sell Harken shares. Smith, retired from Sutro, told the Los Angeles Times this month that Bush said he would check to see if "he could legally sell" his shares before agreeing to do so. The institutional buyer has never been identified, and Smith won't say.

In what would become Bush's most enduring business controversy, the Harken director filed a Form 144 with the SEC announcing his intention to sell a large block of stock. But he also was supposed to file a Form 4 after the sale that documented the specific transaction.

The filing did not occur for 34 weeks, until April 1991. At first, Bush blamed the late filing on the SEC for losing his paperwork. But now he says the fault lies with Harken's lawyers.

Bush failed to file required followup reports with the SEC on four separate Harken transactions over several years. After joining Harken's board, the company gave Bush a $96,000 loan at 5 percent interest, with an eight-year holiday on principal repayments, so he could buy 80,000 shares of company stock. Bush missed SEC deadlines for giving notice of both these acquisitions by nearly four months.

[MadmaX]

Okay, an 86 million dollar investment. Gotcha.
Bush had a 1.8 percent stake, sooo; a million five or better, roughly.
Then where did they get the "$606,000" number?

Then it's sold for $250 million. okay.
And Bush get's a "12 percent of the sales price".
That should be $30mil.
But the writer says "Bush recieved $15-million".

Huhhhh?
I don't know one thing about this, whether it's completely true or completely fabricated, but it IS contradictory all on it's own.

[MadmaX]

I split em' backwards,this goes in front of that post^.

...

doh! Well that helps, a little.

cliffnotes: Bush borrowed money from his own company to exercise stock options, then sold them at a profit, paid back the loan, and didn't file with the SEC to follow up on the transaction for 34 weeks.

If none of that makes you particularly mad, he has since condemned the practice in 2002. Which is hypocritical.

[David]

ya... investing in oil obviously makes him a ****ing dirty ass liar... I guess that would be true for anyone that invest in oil... I mean who the **** would invest in companies like exxon that reports the largest profits in the world... I should probably sell those off and invest in salted crackers.

[STOK5OH]

*sigh*
well,at least daniel understood the point...

[moparornocar]

I think it also proves my point? What millionaire can you trust?

[STOK5OH]

dont have that answer,they're a millionaire for one reason or another...and im guessing it's not usually looking out for others,ethics and morality. lol.

[dave]

ya... record breaking indexes ****ing sucks too :(

**** the dow at 13,000 why can't it go down..america is in the worst shape it's ever been... I think i'm gonna move to canada...

do you feel any responsibility to repay the national debt?

and when i say you, i mean you. you personally, do you feel it is your obligation as a working american citizen to repay the debt?

edit: of course i mean contribute...not the whole thing

[STOK5OH]

This whole thing just shows how tactless the republican party really is,they should know were all dumb enough that all they have to do is shove cheap gas,horsepower,pornagraphy and degenerate consumables in our faces and we'll all look the other way to there corrupt b.s.

[Bobby Light]

I think it also proves my point? What millionaire can you trust?

my boss

[David]

do you feel any responsibility to repay the national debt?

and when i say you, i mean you. you personally, do you feel it is your obligation as a working american citizen to repay the debt?

edit: of course i mean contribute...not the whole thing


yes.

[Bobby Light]

shouldnt everyone?

[dave]

so how can you claim this country is doing so well when everyone owes so much.

i dont see how it is possible to claim that this country is financially stable with a debt so high.

yes spencer, everyone should be responsible for their governments spending.

this country is dumping money we dont have into the economy. its no surprise that it is inflating.
i hope we get a president that realizes this. its going to hurt A LOT to get this back under control. we owe so much money. each individual owes so much money.

the 'booming economy' has made me NO money at all. yet i owe a years salary because of irresponsible presidents.

between bush 1 and bush 2, i think 70% of the nation debt was accrued under their watches.

THAT MONEY ISNT FREE. WE OWE IT! i dont know how i can make it more clear. we will probably never pay it off. but that doesnt mean we dont need to. it is our responsibility. just like you all probably have private debts. you need to pay those off. if you dont. youre ruined. if we dont start being responsible we will be ruined.

[schovil69]

Didn't Clinton get in under control?

[dave]

not really. he lowered the rate of increase. but never actually reduced it.

[moparornocar]

We could cut an ass load off the dept if we quit giving it away! We hand out, or buy too many friends!

[dave]

eh, i think our 'defense' (offense) budget is a little inflated.

[moparornocar]

Wait I think I could sell them some hammers! On sale $600 today only. The rest of the country is built by the lowest bidder, The military is built by how much you can slip em under the table.

[schovil69]

For someone who works for the military, you have an interesting view one things. Don't get me wrong, now, I agree with you on many topics brought up here. However, the defense budget is just an easy target that's in the lime light a lot. There are plenty of gov agencies overspending. We just don't hear about them.

To all: Just open the local phone book and literally read the title of each agency listed. It'll become clearer once you've done this.

[dave]

i do not work for the military. you are thinking of david.

[coop]

bullets before logic....my motto

[schovil69]

i do not work for the military. you are thinking of david.

Yup, I was. sry bout the mixup.

[schovil69]

Seriously though, check out the blue pages. There are more BS offices in there than are worth the money. ****, many of them just sit around eating dognuts all day.

[dave]

i bet that every single one of those agencies, in every single city, in every single state, dont add up to 20% of the defense budget. (- health care)

[Bobby Light]

defense serves a purpose.

most of these places dont.

[moparornocar]

In the world we live in, It would be stupid to cut the defense. Just figure out a way to get what you pay for at a decent price.

[dave]

do you even know how much they spend on defense?

and what do you mean the world we live in? what conditions make it necessary for us to have just a high defense budget?

[moparornocar]

If you are going down the Clinton dismantle the military road ? I think you would be mistaken.$$ spent? Don't care, money well spent (except over priced hammers etc.) You want to save money? Stop, throwing it at college students trying to figure out how many beetles there are per square ft in the middle of the sand hills? just as an example,Useless info.

[ADV1]

If you are going down the Clinton dismantle the military road ? I think you would be mistaken.$$ spent? Don't care, money well spent (except over priced hammers etc.) You want to save money? Stop, throwing it at college students trying to figure out how many beetles there are per square ft in the middle of the sand hills? just as an example,Useless info.


Classic!!! i love that!!! :lol:

[dave]

If you are going down the Clinton dismantle the military road ? I think you would be mistaken.$$ spent? Don't care, money well spent (except over priced hammers etc.) You want to save money? Stop, throwing it at college students trying to figure out how many beetles there are per square ft in the middle of the sand hills? just as an example,Useless info.

i asked you 3 questions and you managed to answer none of them...

[ADV1]

do you even know how much they spend on defense?

and what do you mean the world we live in? what conditions make it necessary for us to have just a high defense budget?

Common Dave, even you have to admit that we live in a dangerous world where we need protected. It sucks but it's true...

Government is meant to protect us and to keep things civil not to feed us or medicate us or any of that stuff, never was meant to be that way but through all of the years it's evolved. Sad part is that the people who really need that assistance can't get it... The system rewards the wrong behavior.

BTW, Fred Thompsen FTW!

[MadmaX]

Government is meant to protect us and to keep things civil not to feed us or medicate us or any of that stuff, never was meant to be that way but through all of the years it's evolved. Sad part is that the people who really need that assistance can't get it... The system rewards the wrong behavior.

BTW, Law & Order FTW!


Not everyone agrees with you on that.
though I do.

[dave]

then you can also agree that the world is dangerous because of us.

so the end justifies the means...

in order to spend billions and billions of dollars on defense, we must first invade a country that that did not threaten us.
i do not believe the world we live in is that dangerous. i think the perception that people have of it is so far off.

terrorism is not a threat. there are far more important things to worry about.

[dave]

do you guys really think that invading iraq INCREASED our protection?
if the defense money is supposed to protect us, then why are we using it to create more enemies?!

[Bobby Light]

do you guys really think that invading iraq INCREASED our protection?
if the defense money is supposed to protect us, then why are we using it to create more enemies?!

i didnt realize that iraq was on our side...

iraq was preventative "maintenance"...kinda like changing a tire on a car, sure the tire may look good and it still works, but sooner or later its going to let go.

terrorism isnt a threat? tell that to the families of the people who died in the WTC attack...if we didnt have any security and gave free reign to the terrorists, new york, DC, chicago...those would cease to exist.

the world is dangerous, and your right, peoples perceptions make the world a dangerous place.

dave when is the last time you were on a plane?

[ADV1]

Dave, I think you need to back up a bit... say pre 2001... what where we doing or invading that caused us to be attacked??? you can say that it was because of our interferance in the first gulf war but that isn't entirely true... Osama's case was always that we had a base in Saudi Arabia and that we shouldn't have been on their Holy Land. Why did we have that base? it was because we put it there back when we where in the hight of the cold war. We never invaded anyone during the cold war either but we had to arm ourselves so that we were'nt eliminated.

Also, FWIW, I was more scared as a kid during the cold war than I am now with terrorism however my kids have to live in this new world where terrorism is the worst enemy we have to face right now.

We need to be protected, I have no problem paying for the military or police or fire dept or anything like that Fed or state. I'd rather like to think that my taxes are going towards those causes than the people like the Carnies I saw at the fair last week...

[ADV1]

i didnt realize that iraq was on our side...

iraq was preventative "maintenance"...kinda like changing a tire on a car, sure the tire may look good and it still works, but sooner or later its going to let go.

terrorism isnt a threat? tell that to the families of the people who died in the WTC attack...if we didnt have any security and gave free reign to the terrorists, new york, DC, chicago...those would cease to exist.

the world is dangerous, and your right, peoples perceptions make the world a dangerous place.

dave when is the last time you were on a plane?[/

FWIW, I've been in the air once a week for the last 3 weeks and I'll continue to do so clear through the end of the month... I'm even flying myself and 6 of my best customers on Sept 11th!!! :nervous: That ought to be fun...

[Bobby Light]

I'd rather like to think that my taxes are going towards those causes than the people like the Carnies I saw at the fair last week...

or the guy in the omaha paper that is on welfare, served a total of 12 years in prison and has 13 kids...

[dave]

i didnt realize that iraq was on our side...

iraq was preventative "maintenance"...kinda like changing a tire on a car, sure the tire may look good and it still works, but sooner or later its going to let go.

terrorism isnt a threat? tell that to the people who died in the WTC attack...if we didnt have any security and gave free reign to the terrorists, new york, DC, chicago...those would cease to exist.

the world is dangerous, and your right, peoples perceptions make the world a dangerous place.

dave when is the last time you were on a plane?

iraq wasnt a threat. it wasnt our enemy.
if iraq is justified as preventative maintenance then i can think of several other counties that need to go, like 193 of them.

terrorism isnt a threat. quit being a ****ing pussy like the rest of the brainwashed country. grow a pair of balls. how many people have died in terrorist attacks in this country? (i ask because i dont know. but i think since 9/11 something like 5 people) hardly the biggest killer of people in america. if protection is really what you are after, why not spend the money on something that will save more lives?

and why does it matter when the last time i was on a plane?

[dave]

Also, FWIW, I was more scared as a kid during the cold war than I am now with terrorism however my kids have to live in this new world where terrorism is the worst enemy we have to face right now.



5 people in the last 6 years is hardly something to fear. perhaps this country is just a bunch of sissies?

[Bobby Light]

iraq wasnt a threat. it wasnt our enemy.
if iraq is justified as preventative maintenance then i can think of several other counties that need to go, like 193 of them.

terrorism isnt a threat. quit being a ****ing pussy like the rest of the brainwashed country. grow a pair of balls. how many people have died in terrorist attacks in this country? (i ask because i dont know. but i think since 9/11 something like 5 people) hardly the biggest killer of people in america. if protection is really what you are after, why not spend the money on something that will save more lives?

and why does it matter when the last time i was on a plane?

so what your saying is, we can cut back on security, and still not have a problem with terrorism????

[ADV1]

or perhaps it has been our constant fight to keep the terrorism out of our country that has allowed us to have a limited amount of people die due to terrorism, hence my willingness to support and pay for the military, CIA, FBI, Police force etc...

[Bobby Light]

yeh thats like saying, well lincoln hasnt had any bank robberies in the past 5 years, maybe we should not have any cops.

[MadmaX]

sadly, it takes a tragedy every so often.

[coop]

yeh thats like saying, well lincoln hasnt had any bank robberies in the past 5 years, maybe we should not have any cops.

cuz rosie was caught

[dave]

or perhaps it has been our constant fight to keep the terrorism out of our country that has allowed us to have a limited amount of people die due to terrorism, hence my willingness to support and pay for the military, CIA, FBI, Police force etc...

how did the terrorists of 9/11 enter our country?

and iraq was never considered a terrorist state. we invaded on the premise of WMD's. none have been found. we never went into iraq to defeat terrorism. am i missing something?

[dave]

yeh thats like saying, well lincoln hasnt had any bank robberies in the past 5 years, maybe we should not have any cops.

once again a terrible analogy from spencer.....
no, its not like that. im not even going to rebut that, im sorry.

[Bobby Light]

how did the terrorists of 9/11 enter our country?

and iraq was never considered a terrorist state. we invaded on the premise of WMD's. none have been found. we never went into iraq to defeat terrorism. am i missing something?

cant remember, but either way, if they entered legaly or illegaly, the security of both of those systems has been greatly improved.

what if iraq did have a nuke? or some kind of bio bomb? dont know about you but i wouldnt want to wait for that ****er to land in my back yard to find out. (also see my analogy about preventative maintenance.)

[Bobby Light]

once again a terrible analogy from spencer.....
no, its not like that. im not even going to rebut that, im sorry.

i dont see how thats different from what you said, its just on a local level.

[dave]

cant remember, but either way, if they entered legaly or illegaly, the security of both of those systems has been greatly improved.

what if iraq did have a nuke? or some kind of bio bomb? dont know about you but i wouldnt want to wait for that ****er to land in my back yard to find out. (also see my analogy about preventative maintenance.)


response to part 1:
they flew in commercially. how does invading iraq prevent them from entering our country now?

response from part 2:
why dont we invade Israel?

[Bobby Light]

part 1 - what does that have to do with what i said? after 9-11 security tightened up a whole shitload.

part 2 - dont know **** about israel or our relationship with them.

[dave]

i dont see how thats different from what you said, its just on a local level.

oh good god......

ok spencer.
an analogy that might work,.
its like if lincoln had 3000 bank robberies in 1 year. the lincoln police dept then created a special task force to prevent future robberies. lincoln devoted its entire police budget to prevent any more robberies. robberies in the next year were 5.
so the question is, after 1 year, and the number of robberies decreased to 5, should lincoln reduce its funding to the special task force? yes. it should. it should return to its normal operating conditions.

that is an analogy that works.

im not suggesting to completely remove the defense dept like your analogy suggests. your analogy does not work. i am sorry, this was a complete waste of my time explaining this to you.

[Bobby Light]

in an appropriate amount of time i dont see any problems with decreasing it...decreasing it now? you have to be kidding.

[Bobby Light]

well if there was 3000 robberies in one year, then it decreased, whos to say it wouldnt go back up to 3000 when you decreased funding.

[dave]

part 1 - what does that have to do with what i said? after 9-11 security tightened up a whole shitload.

part 2 - dont know **** about israel or our relationship with them.

what im saying is what we are doing in iraq has no effect on their ability to enter this country. all they need is a passport. which the people who hijacked the flights on 9/11 had. how does iraq prevent future attacks like 9/11?

[Bobby Light]

then would it cost even more to reimplement all of those efforts after you just decreased them?

[Bobby Light]

what im saying is what we are doing in iraq has no effect on their ability to enter this country. all they need is a passport. which the people who hijacked the flights on 9/11 had. how does iraq prevent future attacks like 9/11?

you know how ****ing hard it is to get a passport now? mine has been in process for 3 months.

[Bobby Light]

and dave, you changed this from defense budget to what we are doing in iraq...im still talking about the money we are spending.

[dave]

im done, where is madmax?

[MadmaX]

what can i do for you?

[dave]

supply a decent intelligent debate?

[dave]

http://openletter2foxnews.wordpress.com/

oh i hope he wins.

[schovil69]

Terrorists go to Iraq to kill Americans now. Beats having them here trying to kill my kids.

[Ervin]

I think cnn has one.
are you trying to say that CNN>LSS?!

[ADV1]

you know how ****ing hard it is to get a passport now? mine has been in process for 3 months.

So has mine! :rolleye:


btw Dave, if you want my opinion... I think we let certain members of our elected officials DELAY the attack on Iraq... This gave Saddam time to move and hide everything. I truthfully think that Seria and Iran have all of his ****. It's the ol The enemy of my enemy is my freind type of thing...

[ADV1]

and dave, you changed this from defense budget to what we are doing in iraq...im still talking about the money we are spending.



Because, Like Ms teen South Carolina this is all people like Dave have to go back to. They cannot go anywhere without bringing up the war because it's the only topic that they can talk a bout that gets any real attention. (Politics wise)

[dave]

you cant be stupid enough to think that the war in iraq isnt costing money from our defense budget, and tons of it. but you know what. i wouldnt put anything past you. because you have shown me that you pretty much have no idea what the **** you are talking about ever and its beginning to get under my skin.

comparing me to ms teen south Carolina doesnt do much for you.....

[dave]

oh, and the first part for was for spencer's post

second was for aric

[MadmaX]

oh yeah,

ftftmfw

[MadmaX]

ontheissues.org is a decent timesaver.

[moparornocar]

Damn I am glad I dropped out of this thread!= Brainwashed misinformed minions.

[dave]

Damn I am glad I dropped out of this thread!= Brainwashed misinformed minions.

finally someone agrees with me!

[MadmaX]

good irony dave!

[dave]

if im brainwashed, explain who is brainwashing me? i am coming up with my own ideas. you guys are the ones watching fox news and believing that terrorism is really the biggest threat this nation faces.

i am far from brainwashed and the fact that you even think that i am confuses me.

[MadmaX]

not so much that you're brainwashed, but saying that if you agree with what someone else says makes you brainwashed. and then proceeding to agree with each other.

One of the funniest cliche's to me, to the point of almost being paradoxical, is to tell someone else to be more "open-minded". Now I realize you didn't actually say those words but bare with me for the point. Think about the last time you had a conversation with a close friend on an issue which you where both felt well informed and happened to agree with each other completely. Did you stop and say, "Hey wait. Maybe we should be more open minded about this."? No. You knew how you felt about it, and you both agreed. By telling other people to be open-minded, and that really is the only time the phrase seems to come up, what you're really saying in a slightly gentler way is; "Moron, take whatever it is you believe and disregard it." Except it's wrapped in the nice p/c shell of supposed enlightenment. "I'm open minded myself, I don't think there are ultimate truths. And btw, what you're saying is wrong."

I think terrorism is a threat. So do some other people. Since there's no way we could have come to that conclusion on our own, we must be brainwashed.

[4 cam torino]

**** where the dow is at, you do realize that the north of the border funny money is about 1:1 with our dollar now? Less than 10 years ago it was more than 3 funny monies to 2 real monies.

[MadmaX]

yup, the dollar is getting weaker.

There where two possible ways it could be interpreted;

1.US equity is on sale. Buy it cheap and make money on it's inevitable recovery.
2.US equity is loosing value, run while you can.


Notice the result; Foreign investing in our stock market has never been higher. In other words, those outside our country know full well the dollar will turn around eventually and are positioning themselves to profit by it.

[4 cam torino]

This I know, but thanks for helping illustrate that the Dow being high doesn't make our economy good. Although when your country has that much debt, how does your money actually make a come back?

[MadmaX]

ahhhhh. The dow is not high. Not high at all. It's never been higher, but from a p/e standpoint, it's a faulkin' 30% off sale imo. On TOP of that, when the dollar bottoms out, everything after that will be like swimming downstream.

[Kries]

Any updates on this?

[GTPpower]

Man...Lepa nailed that one.